Tempo (yes, again!)

xidnpnlss · 2014-11-06T06:08:32.000Z

""JonL1024"":

I was very excited about the Rytm, and was very very close to buying it, when I read that the tempo can only be stored globally. I am finding this hard to believe.

I want to create material (patterns and sounds) for songs that I will perform live along with my synth and digital piano. It would seem that I can prepare and store patterns and sounds with all kinds of details programmed in, ready to go…except that none of my tempos will be stored with the songs/projects/patterns. Is that right? I would need to, in addition to preparing all my material, keep separate notes as to the tempo of each piece and enter them manually each time I perform each piece?

Hopefully I’m misunderstanding how ‘global’ the tempo is…?

I have seen many great demos and lots of good things to say about this unit, so I hate to give up so easily…but if I am understanding correctly, this seems like a major shortcoming for anything called a ‘drum computer’ (or even a sequencer for that matter).

I would appreciate anyone’s thoughts on the matter…am I misunderstanding? How are you folks dealing with this issue.

Thanks in advance!

-Jon

I’m with you. I think it’s a terrible, terrible omission. Essentially they’re saying “this machine is only for those who use little to NO tempo variation.”
I use “tempo prep” (manual, pg. 41). I guess you could use a computer to tell it what tempo to play, but synch has issues too (and meter change).
Why did i get it? I’d assumed a 1.5k usd machine in 2014 would do it. Would i buy it again? Probably. It still rules. I’m just crossing my fingers saving tempo comes with an update…

Ononon · 2014-11-06T12:20:01.000Z

I would be really surprised if this is not part of an OS upgrade. It doesn’t make sense that you cannot save the tempo.

How big a part of a rythm (ahem, Rytm) isn’t the tempo? When tweaking my drums on the Rytm the way I want them to sound is intrinsic to the tempo at which they will be played.

G0n35y · 2014-11-06T13:48:49.000Z

Isn’t global tempo settings how it’s done with all the Elektron boxes? It’s something I’ve wished was different with my OT for a long time anyway - hopefully I havent been dense and missed something!!!

What it has done is since getting a Rytm I have been much more methodical in how I use my 3 Elektrons. It’ll save headaches down the road.

Muddler · 2014-11-06T14:29:37.000Z

Global, but per project though, right? With 128 projects. I’m actually really starting to like the way it is.

secretmusic · 2014-11-06T14:46:44.000Z

""Kujak"":

I would be really surprised if this is not part of an OS upgrade. It doesn’t make sense that you cannot save the tempo.

How big a part of a rythm (ahem, Rytm) isn’t the tempo? When tweaking my drums on the Rytm the way I want them to sound is intrinsic to the tempo at which they will be played.

This is how it is on ALL Elektron boxes.
It has been this way for over 10 years, it’s definitely not going to change, unfortunately.

If you need drastic tempo changes, the best way is to name your kit with the BPM, so you don’t need external notes.

Cheers !

tomcollins · 2014-11-06T14:51:57.000Z

I’m hoping for a change in a future OS update.

I have proposed an approach that supports both cases here Feature Request - Pattern Tempo

xidnpnlss · 2014-11-06T15:18:21.000Z

This is how it is on ALL Elektron boxes.

It has been this way for over 10 years, it’s definitely not going to change, unfortunately.

You’re probably right. Ugh. I’ll have to practice tempo prep. Sucks because you can’t do almost anything until you get out of the tempo menu…
@ muddler: yeah but you can’t change quickly between projects…
I’m not a programmer but is it difficult? Why wouldn’t they’ve implemented it by now?

PeterHanes · 2014-11-06T16:09:36.000Z

""xidnpnlss"":

This is how it is on ALL Elektron boxes.

It has been this way for over 10 years, it’s definitely not going to change, unfortunately.

You’re probably right. Ugh. I’ll have to practice tempo prep. Sucks because you can’t do almost anything until you get out of the tempo menu…
@ muddler: yeah but you can’t change quickly between projects…
I’m not a programmer but is it difficult? Why wouldn’t they’ve implemented it by now?

It is not difficult to make a drum machine that stores a value of tempo with a pattern.

However, as secretmusic and many others have pointed out, Elektron’s design for all their instruments has been to allow for all patterns to be played continually without abrupt changes in tempo as the default behaviour. This enables tempo to be varied seamlessly according to mood, and changed abruptly during performance by value entry or tap tempo or changed by plan in the arranger/song mode.

Whether it would be easy or desirable to add a preference to change this in software on one or all Elektron units is debatable, given the pros and cons of additional functionality and changed user interface.

We might imagine that, after all this time, it’s not on Elektron’s list of planned changes.

snowcrash · 2014-11-06T16:38:10.000Z

That design choice has its roots in electronic dance music, where it is mostly common to stick with one tempo.

As currently Elektron is targeting different audiences like bands etc. different tempos are essential. Also I don’t think gradual tempo changes should be a matter of technical limits but rather a compositional choice. Bummer.

Anyway, best and only way around this is to slave the Elektrons to another clock.

Btw. Korg’s Electribes offer both: there has always been a switch to simply lock the current tempo across patterns or to let each pattern have their individual BPM. There’s even a dedicated knob for that…

JonL1024 · 2014-11-06T18:00:13.000Z

Wow, thanks for all your input!

It seems I can store the tempo per project. I don’t know how clunky it will be to have one of my songs per project and load a new project for each new song…but that would work. Also, syncing to tempo of my synth and storing the tempos within the synth patches would also work it seems.

But while I was thinking about it, the retailers I was going to buy from both sold out (between last night and this morning). Popular item!

Muddler · 2014-11-07T01:10:46.000Z

If this is your only instrument onstage, i could see it being a problem. really though, even something as simple as delay pedal would give you more than enough time to change patterns. it takes like 15-20 seconds at most.

i didn’t like it at first though so i see where you’re coming from.

R7 · 2014-11-07T09:39:07.000Z

Regardless of if global tempo has always been the way for Elektrons, they should be able to look at it as a upgrade, with more optional features and not something that violates some arbitrary design choice. The Machinedrum came out over a decade ago. Ages in technology time and it’s just silly to stick to a design choice from that long ago when so many users are asking for the option of something different.

Just the option, a software setting that lets the user make the choice. Easy, everyone’s happy.

It would be very nice and convenient to simply offer a setting in perhaps the Global menu. Track Tempo or Master Tempo. Perhaps even a checkmark in the settings for individual patterns so you could have some that would have a saved tempo, and the ones that don’t would play at whatever the Global tempo is.

ringokidf · 2014-11-07T10:29:25.000Z

I would love a tempo pr pattern or kit option too as I use my Rytm in band situations playing live.
I would also love an option to separate the click from the main out only going to the headphones. I don´t see why the audience have to listen to a click if I´m finger drumming or building up a beat on the fly etc.

Apart from that I find the Rytm top dollar and any other wishes, like more machines, better navigations, overbridge… I do believe gonna show in future updates.

stutech · 2014-11-07T10:40:52.000Z

Actually, a per-step plockable tempo parameter would be exactly the kind of setting I’d imagine to fit into the Elektron “vision” of their machines <3 This parameter could live in the fx track somewhere, so it’d mostly be out of sight for normal operation (and therefore quite safe and easily ignored by people who never want to use it). Theen you could even use the fx track LFO for manipulating the tempo, as well as glides!

Would allow you to also set the tempo changes to every pattern so everybody would win.

Muddler · 2014-11-19T06:01:16.000Z

can anybody answer a question about tempo on the OT?
I know it’s a global midi setting, but where is that setting saved? Is it per part? I thought it was but I couldn’t find it when I skimmed the manual just now.

G0n35y · 2014-11-19T12:54:40.000Z

[quote="“Muddler” date=“2014-11-19 06:01:16"”]
can anybody answer a question about tempo on the OT?
I know it’s a global midi setting, but where is that setting saved? Is it per part? I thought it was but I couldn’t find it when I skimmed the manual just now.

[/quote]

I could be slavering here but isn’t tempo saved with the whole project?

Muddler · 2014-11-19T15:07:49.000Z

Thanks. That would explain why I gave up on it.

IMO the ar is much more workable, tempo and all. It just seems more streamlined but actually it’s the same structure, isn’t it? 128 patterns trapped in one tempo.
Why does it feel less of a constriction on the ar, I’m not quite sure.?!

OB_J · 2021-06-18T17:35:42.959Z

phading:

Does anyone else get a bit tired of such a rigid 4/4 oriented machine world? How do you deal with it?

it is oriented for 4/4 but i have programmed all kinds of crazy time signatures on it. it CAN be done and honestly its not hard

xidnpnlss · 2021-06-18T17:37:16.073Z

phading:

I guess I’m asking elektronauts if I’m alone in this.

You are not. Mimicking rubato would be a dream. Tempo per pattern + song mode and/or direct jump has helped tremendously but ofc its not the same. But this seems to me to be very difficult on digital clock generators: I personally don’t know of any that do something like this (with analog clocks, its a breeze).

Stickhit · 2021-06-19T09:08:02.964Z

The old Roland MC-909 has a dedicated tempo/mute track, which allows realtime recording of tempo changes.