Techno Lover! Looking for tips/advice on learning how to model sounds with the AF

Hi, I’ve had my AF for around a year now.I’m now looking to really focus on this box and I’m looking to get to know the machine and it’s engines.

I’ve got an AR and I’m happy I’ve covered all bases and can jam all night long with this beast but the AF seems like an uphill struggle at times! I make techno (Markus Suckut, Mike parker, etc) and still can’t seem to get the sounds i’m looking for. Check out some of the tracks in this mix for an example -

Can anyone offer any links, tips or anything else that will help me learn analog synthesis with the AF and allow me to maximise my machine and aim to make tunes of the darker nature…

Cheers

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Have you tried Syntorial? it is an interactive tutorial on substractive synthesis.

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most of this is 909, 808, 606 with lots of distortion, FX, reverb for drums. bass lines are mostly acid again everything has lots of FX, everything is pretty minimal for clubs. start by looking on the web how to make these sounds try maybe looking on some techno production forms. once you learn the concept on how the sounds are being made you will have to figure out how to do that with your gear. heres a good start

http://audioundone.com/a-musical-analysis-of-techno

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I second the reading of the link given by Peoplemuver … it’s an excerpt of the book “Dance Music Manual”, which has given me lot’s of tips and tricks. I would recommend to get this book. It’s a great resource.

What is your experience level to make your own synth sounds?

If you are new to “subtractive synthesis”, that’s what the AF is providing, take some time to learn the basics and then go back to the manual, and you will see that the AF has many more features under the hood, than the common analog synth. It’s one of the most versatile synths of today.

In the video seems to be a lot of sampled stuff too. Some of these sounds can not directly be created with most of the synths I know, but need some heavy processing and the use of external gear or plug-ins might be required.

Fantastic advice here. Going to read those links in great depth.

Plus that synthtorial looks good.

To be honest I use the sample packs on the AF and tweak them to taste but I can’t seem to get the sounds i want. I occasionally tune my own sounds from the ground up but I’m even further away when i do this. I’ve been making techno for years with Ableton and a load of soft synths (using the built in patches usually) so I’m down with how a track should be built but I really want to master this AF to allow me to use it to make those dark techno sounds.

In my moments of weakness I do somethings regret buying the AF. I’m hopeful but not convinced (yet) that this box can provide the sounds I desire. But the AR is the best thing since sliced bread. Wow. Then I realise how good the integration with over bridge and the AF/AR and I snap back out of it!

Soundrider: I’d be quite happy to add to my setup with more kit, what would you recommend?

techno sounds will come out of the AF but its complex and has a wide range of sounds so it will take a while to master.try starting with the 303 or acid patches that are free with the AF. for other synths if you want instant techno then any 303 emulation synth. Moog dose techno sounds very easy also.

303 type synth
Avalon bassline
Furture retro
xoxbox
TB bass bot
their is alot more than that also.

The suggestions of Peoplemuver are good advice for getting your kit extended.

A sampling device like the Octatrack could also be a host of many sounds and FX. You could also consider a MPC for sound mangling or the gear from Korg like the Electribes or the Volcas. But let me be honest. You will only have real fun with the gear you already have and also with new gear you add, if you dig into sound design yourself.

Getting well done patches for a synth and tweak it, is a good starting point to learn and see, what a synth is capable of. But let me tell you from my experience that it’s faster to start from a naked basic template and built sounds from there. I can only encourage to try out to recreate simple sounds yourself, following a good tutorial, understand what is going on that makes out the character of this specific sound, and then continue with more complex sounds. There are some basics, that are learned easily and fast, which built upon each other, and after a relatively short time you will listen to sounds and get an idea, what could be done to recreate this sound. It’s about knowing your gear, understanding synthesis at a moderate level, listening carefully, and much experience, which will develop over time.

If you are interested to start this learning, I would recommend to have a look on a very good series of articles on sound-on-sound.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/allsynthsecrets.htm

Don’t be impressed by the quantity. You can pick what you are interested in. Most articles are self-contained.

The book “Becoming a Synthesizer Wizard”, by Simon Cann, is a good resource to learn about basic sound design using “subtractive synthesis”. Well, I wasn’t a wizard after reading it, but I got some ideas, how to continue.

If you learn to ride your AF, you will never regret. As I said before, it’s one of the most versatile synths on the market and there is a world of sounds inside, which wait to be explored. You have only to open this door by yourself … and maybe … we here in the forum can be of some help.

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Many thanks for the replies, very helpful.

I now have the motivation to learn the art of building a patch from scratch on the AF and aim toward the darker realm of the musical spectrum. Loads to get through now but it’s all good.

I think I’ll hold off adding to my hardware until I’ve mastered the AF.

This forum is such a great resource - great replies.

I

one of the things that is pretty essential IMHO, is the actual experience of knowing how to do sound design… which is a skill you have to learn, like anything else, and takes practice

so, its best not to think in terms of getting the “ultimate” sounds right off the bat, no matter how good the tutorial is… the vast majority of what you need is just raw experience, the rest is inspiration

so yeh… practice, practice, practice…

also - a key thing to realize is where your talents are skewed - for example i love doing sound design, making odd sounds, new fx, etc. i just love fucking around on synths…

but some people are more producer minded - where they are more interested in arrangements, mixing, etc. and dont care too much about spending time on actual sound design

only way to find out is to start playing around and see what is most fun for you - the things you do where you can spend lots of time doing it and not notice the time flying by… thats generally an indication of which direction your interests are going

Making good techno is about discovering sounds.

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I scanned through the replies and didn’t see that anyone said this. But one thing you can do is pick a favorite preset of yours in the A4 and listen and take notes on how changing each parameter changes the character of the patch. I learned subtractive synthesis through a combination of reading manuals, looking up definitions of subtractive synthesis parameters and listen to how parameters change sounds.

This is a good tip.
Let me add this : with the Packs you often see Kits with configred Performance macros.
Be aware of this if you want to dig in Kits you like : Performance macros change the parameters in ways you don’t see on parameter pages…

Now with such kit you may place trigs and get crazy with the Performance macros, and discover sounds you wouldn’t have thought possible to synthesize. Performance macros can change so many parameters in the same time that moving several of them has a huge impact on the sound.
Reverse engineering the sound you like in such case might be a bit hard, but you’ll learn a lot in the process.

Keep this for the time when you feel you know the machine enough, though.
But pay attention to Performance macros are defined every time you load a new Kit.

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Some fantastic tips.

I’ve already started my upward leaning cure toward perfecting those darker sounds with the AF… Having a good time doing it too!

I’ll take all the tips on board and keep on plugging away with these two machines that are packed full of potential.

Cheers!

If you want to extend your kit I’d say best bang for buck is an old dx100 or tx81z - you’ll get plenty of techno basses and chords out of those - the tx is probably better as its multimbral (I think…) pick em up used for cheap on eBay.

hey there my tip is listen to a lot of techno artists , djs , and producers, forget about melodies and musical structures , work with loops in analog rytm , convert into a nerd of kick drums try something new every time , spend some time just working on sounds rather than a "track ", and in the case of A4 I understand is hard at the beginning to make cool sounds forget the preset patch , although the acid and 303 patch are really cool to begin with as was said before in this thread , but the most important thing is to express yourself !!! IMHO techno is about feeling not recipes or formulas but of course you can learn from wherever you want , for example I don’t think you need to make a hissing kickdrum if you’re working with AR IMO it has enough power to make grooves without too much processing or effects , enjoy your machines !!!

Had a chance to get to work on the machines over the weekend and I’ve posted a track on SC with the results. Thanks again for the replies!

One more thing, Is there anyway to route the AF though the RYTM’s compressor/using Overbridge?I’m using Ableton/Overbridge via USB.

Cheers

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Your track is great :robot:

What type of sounds are you after exactly? You say you have the AR… are you not getting what you want from that or are you looking to pair the two?

Here’s a wicked vid using just the AR

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What worked for me, and what may work for others for getting desirable sounds out of the A4 was using it, and using it some more, and using it even more.

Once I developed the muscle memory needed on the A4 that is required to shape a sound more toward what I was seeking, many great things began to happen.
Not only would I arrive at my desired destination sooner with each session, but I also became better equipped to comfortably go off the beaten path and explore the more interesting components of the synth (modulation destinations, and incorporating more parameter locks between steps with trigless locks).

And every exploration has been an investment toward an even deeper, more fulfilling exploration the next day.

In the end it’s just an instrument, like all others. And practice pays dividends.

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Nice track Deeper!!