Synthstrom Audible Deluge [inc. Open Source development]

The Lounge Other Gear
#1658

@Rabbon Thought it might be helpful to you and others to share this comment from the creator of Downrush (shared on Facebook on 12/30/2020):

(highly recommend joining the FB group if you own a Deluge or have one on order, that’s where most of the community seems to prefer to discourse)

I haven’t been working on Downrush for awhile now. The biggest reason is because I myself have stopped using it.

One big reason for that is that the FlashAir card does not work very well with my MacBook. When the FlashAir is active, my wireless mouse often stops working.

Another reason for losing interest in Downrush has to do with the fact that Toshiba is discontinuing the FlashAir product, which is causing the price of existing cards to go up.

So what to do next?

The best set up for a future Downrush involves exploiting the fact that modern web browsers have decent Midi support. Access to SysEx messages is possible as long as the web site involved uses HTTPS (encryption).

An ideal setup would be for Downrush to be served-up from the web, running in the browser, using SysEx messages to access the file system on the Deluge. No information about the files themselves has to go into the cloud.

The SysEx commands we need are: list directory, upload file, download file, rename file, delete file, & trigger reload. While I would love to see Deluge extended to do much more, like allowing you to change synth settings individually, the file manipulation stuff is all I need.

Using SysEx and USB Midi (assuming you can handle a bitrate way bigger than 30K baud) will make Downrush (and many other 3rd party apps) available for the Deluge without requiring users to buy anything.

I encourage everyone interested in Downrush to clamor for this change incessantly.

2 Likes
#1659

Thanks yes I did see this over on that forum a few days after posting here. My hope is that I don’t run into those same wireless interference issues. I also read someone reporting that the air card caused some form of clicking interference noise on their inputs.

I did go ahead and purchase a flashair card for myself even knowing all these troubles cause it just sounds like too great of a feature to skip out on. Given that flashair cards won’t even be produced anymore, I just had to make the leap of faith.

I agree with Jamie that having the Deluge team implement all that SYSEX functionality would be great but they may not even be considering it. If flashair is the only way I don’t want to miss out.

Thanks!

1 Like
#1660

FWIW had no wifi interference or clicking with the flashair in my Deluge.

#1661

It’d be great to see Synthstrom open things up feature-wise for other external management tools. Fingers crossed!

#1662

Friendly reminder to give any requests you support an upvote/comment/thread (whichever is appropriate) over on the Synthstrom forum :slight_smile:

These seem relevant to our discussion:

1 Like
#1663

Anyone compared the Deluge to the Oxi One … just the sequencer aspects of the Deluge obviously.

To me (not owning either) the Deluge architecture (“add as many tracks as you want”) seems more flexible and more understandable than the Oxi One offering.

May be an unfair comparison, taking into account the price differential, and the fact that Oxi One is still changing and no-one but the developer has hands on the machine as yet.

#1664

I don’t know the Oxi One too well, but just from looking at the specs:

  • Deluge tracks can be any number of steps (Oxi limited to 64)
  • Related: Deluge tracks can have resolution up to 1/384th of a beat
  • Oxi has an LFO per track (Deluge only has LFOs for internal sounds)
  • Oxi has 8 cv outs, Deluge has 2
  • Oxi has CV portamento and vibrato - can the Deluge do this?
  • Oxi has a loop function, depending on how this is implemented it could be more flexible than the Deluge.
  • Oxi has different playback directions, I think the Deluge is getting this in the next update, along with Euclidean sequencing
  • Oxi has “Intelligent and musical pattern randomizer and Innovative chord function” … don’t think there’s really an equivalent on the Deluge (although there is a nice probability on the Deluge)
  • Oxi has swing per sequence, Deluge has swing per song (erhm, not exactly sure what an Oxi sequence is but I’m gonna leave this here)

Just listing those, it seems the Oxi adds some functionality and flexibility not seen in the Deluge. For me, the first point (unlimited steps per track on the Deluge) is the kicker and imperative to my style of composing. I’m sure there are also a lot of workflow differences.

And of course, the Dellie is also a sampler and synth.

Oxi One Hardware Sequencer
#1665

And it’s made in Middle Earth. Gandalf is all over it. :woman_mage:

4 Likes
#1666

:rofl:

1 Like
#1667

Don’t get me started. Their chosen terminology has made it hard for me to understand.

#1668

Not yet.

#1669

The one I’m focussing on is, with the deluge and the Oxi one, up to 8 tracks, and it’s all pretty straight-forward (on Oxi-one, a single multi-track ‘sequencer’ will do the job).

If you add up to 3 tracks more you could either have two multi-track sequencers (8+3) or 1 multi-track + 3 monos (because the Oxi One has 4 sequencers total)

For 12 tracks and up you’re definitely into the realms of two of your 4 ‘sequencers’ on the Oxi One being multi-tracks.

In the meantime … on a deluge, you’re just continuing to add add one more track, up to and beyond the max 32 on the Oxi One I think ?

I don’t think my brain would cope with the Oxi Ones complexity … but hey the only sequencer I know right now is the model:cycles, so what do I know ? :man_shrugging:

#1670

Yeah, so I had a chat with Boromir about that right before that Elrond thing, and he said that one simply does not need 32 tracks anyway.

#1671

Hmm. I don’t completely understand but I’m going to respond anyways (caffeine, amirite?) :slight_smile:

On the Deluge, each kit clip is (I think) basically a multi-track sequencer. Each row can trigger a different sample (or send to a different MIDI channel). For melodic content, the Deluge uses synth clips, which are the same as a kit row except the interface is optimized for note transposing and sustains.

The number of tracks/clips on the Deluge is limited only by the CPU power (which depends on many factors, but if you are only using it for MIDI it should be more than enough for any scenario). Each clip can have its own length. Coming in the 3.2 update is the flexibility for each kit row to have its own length.

The Oxi certainly seems to be a deeper sequencer but I’m sure you can slowly dive into the features as you learn it (like the Octatrack). If there’s one thing I’ve learned about choosing gear, it’s to consider your use case. I can get caught up on some features that a piece of gear has, forgetting that it has no place in what I actually want to do with music. Do you want:

all-in-one portable groove box forged in Middle Earth with an intuitive and powerful sequencer uniquely suited to capture long performances
OR
full-fledged sequencer begging to be the centerpiece of a modular setup equipped with performance tools and ready to bang out 4 bar sequences to your heart’s delight

[obviously that summary is, in my opinion]

@circuitghost and what would this Gandalf fellow say if he knew I was staying up late, spending my nights softly touching My Precious the Dellie?

1 Like
#1672

He’d be totally cool with it. He’s a bit filthy that way.

1 Like
#1673

Of course … not taken the plunge with the dellie as yet but I know I’m finding 6 tracks limiting on the model:cycles … If I had not merged (and p-locked) the percussion tracks a bit, I’d be looking at 9 tracks for the thing I’m working on now. Which means my ‘upgrade’ path is looking like a dellie, not an oxi-one + external synths.

Or perhaps adding a synced model:samples

1 Like
#1674

I really think above and beyond all, the Deluge is a composer’s tool and as such, it offers venues I’ve yet to find in any other instrument. There are sequencers out there doing lots of stuff the Deluge doesn’t do, but none does it the way the Deluge does it. That’s the killer argument for me.

And it’s not exactly barren on features. It compares favourably to pyramids and cirklons and elektrons for sure.

1 Like
#1675

My Deluge finally arrived last night - I’m very impressed!

Overall initial thoughts:

  • As everyone says, it’s insanely fast to get ideas down, and the vast majority of the interface is really simple to grok.
  • The controls are mostly really intuitive - I did a fair bit of research/tutorial watching before it arrived, but I feel like after a couple hours with it I know 95% of what I need to finish a track, but can tell there’s a lot more depth to uncover beyond the basics.
  • The grid buttons are harder to play than I thought. I have a Launchpad Pro Mk3, and both the size “squishiness” of the Deluge buttons threw me off a little. When MPE support comes I suspect I’ll be doing some of my live recording using the Launchpad.
  • With most of my other sequencer experience coming from Elektron devices and OP-Z, I’m realizing how much I wish those devices had “cross-screen”.
  • The screen is hard to read for pretty much anything other than numbers. Some of the “letters” legitimately look like some sort of Kiwi joke by putting half of the word in LOTR’s Cirth runes :upside_down_face:
  • It would be really nice to have some way to visualize envelope shape.

Points of confusion:

  • When live recording it seems like the behavior on when to extend a clip length by another bar vs. loop over the existing length is a little confusing. It seems like it’s doing something smart to try to determine if it should extend or overdub, or maybe I’m doing something wonky
  • Can stutter be applied to individual “trigs” on the piano roll? I envisioned myself using this to throw ratchets in when programming the sequencer, but it seems almost exclusively for use in live recording or performance.

Overall it feels like it’s going to be a great device, it checks a lot of boxes I was trying to accomplish with OP-Z (battery powered, portable, etc) but singificantly easier to use with non-Hobbit fingers :smiley: I’m looking forward to getting some tracks completed with it!

1 Like
#1676

This also confuses me. The logic I think I’ve figured out so far is:

  • if there are no trigs on the clip and you hit record before play then it will extend the clip
  • if there are trigs on the clip or if you hit record after play then it will just loop over the existing clip length

Could be wrong about that behavior though :slight_smile:

Yes! Just added in the 3.1.0 update:

Note repeat - hold down a note’s pad, and hold down and turn the vertical scroll knob to dial in more or less repeats of the note, which will be spaced as equally as possible within the time interval represented by the pad you’re holding

#1677

Whoa! Nice to know. I can imagine there’s a thousand more little shortcuts waiting for me :smiley:

So if I’m in 16th notes view and the note I’m selecting takes up one “pad”, the ratchets will be 16ths, if two pads 8ths, etc., yeah?

Also I’ll try to test your theory about the live recording clip extending logic and see if it matches what I’m seeing and report back :+1:

1 Like