I completely agree with you regarding the sounds. I dont think its harsh on anyone to tell your personal opinion about things. If someone gets offended, that’s on them.
I remember when I bought the Syntakt, I was initially very underwhelmed. The model:cycles bits sounded worse than on m:c, and I already had the Rytm synth sounds in my Rytm. What was this box going to give me? Did I fall for GAS and “gotta catch em all” Elektron fanboyism? The only way I thought I could ever see myself using the Syntakt was as one sound source among others… certainly not as a box that would make all the sounds in a track/composition?! But, little by little, I have learned to coax it into places where I do like what it is doing.
I dont persoanlly think a Syntakt sounds sublime. It sounds “Ok” most of the time. But it crams quite a lot of capability in a small box, which is useful in itself. The featureset on offer is unique, and that in itself makes ST a good tool for certain contexts.
yes undeniably a powerhouse for all things techno, for others Genre maybe a bit more difficult but lately i’ ve been having a lot of fun with this thing, the raw machine is really good to do simple sh-101 and mc-202 leads and bass
I wouldn’t say I felt offended, no worries. I’m with you on your main point in the comment you wrote: sound and workflows are totally subjective, so it doesn’t make that much sense to just say “Syntakt is the best/worst drum machine”.
I just wanted to share that it might be helpful if we added a bit of context to what music we’re making / preferences we have when talking about these machines. I totally get where you’re coming from, like @Jacob has pointed out, you’re a wild sound design person. So I get that init Syntakt sounds and presets might sound quite boring to you and aren’t that useful.
But other people (like me) mainly use these machines to get something going fast and see them more as tools to express the melodies and drums they have in mind. So I’m looking for different things in a drum machine and appreciate the many fast shortcuts and limited options ST offers.
Both are fair points. But I think these discussions would benefit if we added that context sometimes. Especially if you’re starting out, you might think a machine is utter garbage or you’re doing it all wrong when reading some comments. It takes some time to realize these things probably don’t matter to you. There’s succesful artists that do deep sound design and endless tinkering, but there’s also Four Tet or Fred Again, who mainly use presets or shitty phone recordings. Both groups make good music, whether we like hardware or not is about how they help or hinder you in your workflow.
even for “wild sound design person” Ctrl-all function for random manipulation of all 12 tracks in extreme values is great.
of course, you can somehow theoretically set up such routing in daw, but it still won’t be the same… and when it comes to atonal manipulations with analog engines and analog drive… from atonal drones and pulsating shaking loops for film music to ensemble of fm-flutes. St is great)
I was thinking about adding another paragraph stating that Elektrons are usually complex and flexible enough to do a lot of things with them. I mean Nils and Jeanne already pointed out that you can do wild stuff with ST if you invest the time.
That being said, the machines are designed to lend themselves more to some preferences and less to others. Meaning that I wouldn’t suggest A4 to someone who wants a straightforward, ready to go synth and I wouldn’t suggest ST to someone looking for a synth to get lost in loads of sound design options for years. Both can be used that way, but it helps to be aware of what they’re intended to do.
From the standpoint as of a Drum Machine I don’t see anything else flexible enough around.
Maybe I am wrong, but this thread tells me about the same.
Am I wrong?
You’re absolutely right, thanks for pointing to different use cases for the Syntakt. I wouldn’t want to discourage anyone from buying a Syntakt even though I’m not crazy about its default sounds myself
Syntakt primarily lets me put 4 rytm voices (including the nice new ones) on my desk with more space for breathing or other gear, which is worthwhile alone. The digital tracks do the basics of solid FM bass, bells, a basic set of weird modulated elektron noises via already invested in cycles ip, a new lofi machine that is kind of superseded in quality by the new SID machine, a nice supersaw that you would hope for, and then the fx track that makes it all greater than the sum of its parts. Apparently they’re going to continue to work on making it better which is best case scenario, exciting news to hear
For me, the best hardware drum synthesis is offered by Nord Drum. In combo with DT/DT2/OT sampling and sequencing it would be the best drum machine I ever seen. However, it’s not a single drum machine box in this case.
Forgive my ignorance, I haven’t had to do with the Machinedrum. Are its sounds so unique, that the Syntakt, being the part digital drummachine it is, can’t recreate? How so?
Syntakt could be so much more. But I guess Elektron just want their boxes to be too good. It could be filled with an abundance of creative digital one page synth machines. And it sounded that this was the plan in the beginning. They could have become very creative here.
It s not about validation and I don t have Syntakt, but I don t find anything in shops more flexible.
This helps my decision to get Syntakt or something else.
They’re quite similar in basic concept. The MD uses the same concept of «machines» as the ST, and it has a similar number of limited sound parameters pr machine. They’re both drum machines at heart, with a number of monophonic tracks.
They differ in a few ways:
They have different machine families. The Syntakt has a lot of FM machines, similar to the MD but not identical. It also has Swarm, Chord and more general synth machines that you won’t find in the MD, and importantly analog machines. The MD on the other hand has exclusively digital machines, and they’re all drum kit oriented: 808 emulation, physical modelling kit, FM kit, and a 12 bit sampled kit. As you can see there is a little of overlap between them particularly on FM and «analog», but not that much. In reality they cover quite different sound territories.
A few MDs have UW functionality (sampling), which of course set them apart from the Syntakt. The sampling feature incudes real time sampling and mangling. It appeared in 2005 and was developed from there into a new product (Octatrack, 2010).
The MD has a more open architecture. Individual outs, analog trigger inputs, routable LFOs, kits, machines that can control other machines etc.
Syntakt has the analog FX track, and better general utility functions - more LFOs, better envelopes, more flexible and better sounding filters, a more developed sequencer.
TLDR; similar basic concepts with quite different implementation and features, that cover different sonic ground.
As there is no sampling support then every sound made on it is a stock. But this box can sound nice and can sound awful.
I am really happy with the Syntakt and it’s limitations. But I understand some criticism. This box is not cheap and could be easily (?) extended with more features to become a new, better Machinedrum.
Instead, Elektron’s main area of interest was to not enter the other boxes territory.
Anyway, there is some competition, but Syntakt with its limitations is strong. With a little work this thing can sound great. It’s instant, the variety of machines and the ability to use multiple sounds from the sound pool on a single track make it a beast.
at least we can’t say we don’t know that. and the offer is very clear to me.
The complain why they strip down the machine compared to the flagship is not really valid and comparing MD and OT to the ST is not very fair then.
People looking for a one to rule them all machine will have difficulties with elektron as their machines are not Roland groovebox which originated that concept of synth+samples+effects+sequencer+pads+mastering tools.
(I’m certainly guilty of that as well by the past because financials)
in fact they are machines for the live performer and they are thinked as a complimentary setup (of course you can use those in studio as well). And it’s exactly the purpose why I was interested. I really like to focus that way : one machine > one purpose (in terms of live performance) But a Live performance setup is costly because you pile at least 2 or 3 machines or more. so yeah it’s a budget.
sometimes jumping on the new one is not usually the best move than finding a flagship second hand.
Besides, I’ve always appreciated the fact that Elektron seem very conscious not to sacrifice the UI flow when introducing new features.
The early beta OSes of the Machinedrum were lacking so many of the features that we now take for granted. I wouldn’t want that crude level of functionality back, but it has to be said that it posessed an extremly fast and fluid workflow.
I do get where you are coming from. But I also think it isn’t quite so cut-and-dry. Elektron is a a very small company. I know I often forget that because of how much impact they have, how polished and ubiquitous their devices are, etc.
It seems to me Elektron is keenly focused on usability and stability in their instruments before they work on extra sounds and features. They’ve spent a lot of time with their recent devices adding less in terms of new machines/sounds but more in terms of new/planned upgrades to the general featureset and UX (not to mention OB for the newest boxes). Looking at the size of Elektron, I think it seems like they’re pretty productive commensurate with the number of people working (and compared to places I’ve worked!).
Even so, they’ve given a lot of love to analog tracks and a bit less to digital. Analog is the main selling point for ST over DT2 so, I think it’s been reasonable to emphasize that side of it recently. They are on-record now saying they have more planned for Syntakt, and I would bet $20 they will be adding digital machines in future updates. I just think they’ve had a lot of plates spinning in the past 3 years.
I don’t think there will be another Machinedrum, unfortunately, but that’s what makes it a unique and classic instrument.
