Syncing Rytm and A4

LFO7 · 2014-11-24T03:27:55.000Z

Hmm, I don’t get it, what am I doing wrong, is there anyone that can suggest a better way?

I am syncing the Rytm to the A4 with just a midi chord, it doesn’t matter who is master and who is sync, they are a little off from one another, the tempo varies in the slave machine by .1
But the machines definitely don’t sound synced, can someone tell me what I should do here, I would think that these machines should sync perfectly.
What am I doing wrong?

djd_oz · 2014-11-24T05:41:06.000Z

Maybe post your MIDI settings (or upload a video) for both machines and we can have a look into it.

Dtroy · 2014-11-24T06:11:09.000Z

I experience the same issue. The two are definitely off sync, not by a whole lot but it is noticeable. I’m wondering why myself.

PeterHanes · 2014-11-24T15:43:20.000Z

[quote=“” Dtroy""]
I experience the same issue. The two are definitely off sync, not by a whole lot but it is noticeable. I’m wondering why myself.
[/quote]

If you tell us how your system is set up, we might be able to help you.

twyce · 2014-11-25T09:02:10.000Z

I have the same problem when using Analog Rytm as master, it is all the time slightly off time, and sometime when I start, there is a big delay.

For the moment I use MD or MnM as master clock. But it is not very convenient because MD is sending CC when control out = on. So it put mess in AR. (I use CC receving because I control AR with Strom or external controler).

t · 2014-11-25T17:43:47.000Z

It’s normal to see the tempo display on the slave machine to vary over a 1 BPM range during playback with this setup.

It’s not normal to actually hear the tempo fluctuating or to get a delay before the slave machine starts. Make sure to test with only the OUT from the master connected to the IN of the slave (to prevent MIDI loops), and also check that you have the correct MIDI sync settings set on both the master as well as the slave.

I use a setup with a RYTM as the master and an A4 as well as an MPC-1000 as the slave, and never had an issues.

twyce · 2014-11-25T19:51:03.000Z

I have experience with A4, MnM, MD, MPC1000, EHX45000, Evolver, and never had problem with sync.

The AR is the first machine to have this slight delay. My beat doesn’t sound the same if MD or AR is masterclock.

I will try to make a video of that.

EDIT : check my post below !

twyce · 2014-11-25T20:22:57.000Z

OK, I don’t have too much time for video, so I record a simple pattern with AR and MD. The pattern is one bar 4/4 Rim shot on both machine.

https://soundcloud.com/yoltofficial/yolt-ar-sync-issue

First part 0 to 12s, MD is masterclock with setting like that :
MD : tempo in = internal, tempo out = on, ctrl in/out = on
AR : Midi sync all check (tempo receive, transport receive)

Pause : I switch the cable

From 18s, AR is masterclock with setting :
MD : tempo = external, ctrl in/out on
AR : Midi sync all check (tempo send, transport send)

Moreover : I check several possibilties on option, to see if any difference = NO.

EDIT : I want to add that the delay I get when AR is master, sometime is bigger. I need to press stop several time, then play, to have a small delay.

OB_J · 2014-11-25T22:05:11.000Z

i have my AR and my A4 permanently linked and there is NO problem unless…

I have Logic feeding the AR clock and the AR is also midi’d to the A4. my workaround is to just start both machines straight from logic when dumping.

other than that flawless.

i would do as someone suggested and have i out cable from the AR to In on the A4 and try it like that

t · 2014-11-26T06:20:23.000Z

I get a 404 when I tap that link on my iPhone.

twyce · 2014-11-26T08:07:49.000Z

""t"":

I get a 404 when I tap that link on my iPhone.

I put it back in public, now you can have access.

t · 2014-11-26T11:49:32.000Z

@twyce This is with only a single MIDI cable directly connecting both machines, right? No other MIDI or USB MIDI connections are hooked up in these examples?

This might sound a bit silly, but have you tried using a different MIDI cable?

What I think is happening is that some of the MIDI clock messages that the RYTM sends somehow get “dropped” before they are interpreted by the MD.

Do you have a powered MIDI Thru or Merge box you can put in between the RYTM and the MD?

twyce · 2014-11-26T12:32:41.000Z

""t"":

@twyce This is with only a single MIDI cable directly connecting both machines, right? No other MIDI or USB MIDI connections are hooked up in these examples?

This might sound a bit silly, but have you tried using a different MIDI cable?

What I think is happening is that some of the MIDI clock messages that the RYTM sends somehow get “dropped” before they are interpreted by the MD.

Do you have a powered MIDI Thru or Merge box you can put in between the RYTM and the MD?

Only one cable used for test. No USB or other midi cable on other port.

I tested 2 midi cable, I will test with more, to see. But I think this is not the problem as it is working when MD send midi to AR.

Maybe … It is very difficult to know where is the problem, because the delay is more or less big randomly.

I have midi merger from midi solutions (powered by midi not by external power supply). I can test it anyway.

I will try to go deeper in my research, if I don’t find solution I will ticket the Elektron support.

Thank for help !

t · 2014-11-26T13:21:01.000Z

I think the problem might be a combination of different factors; that’s the reason for those suggestions. Do other things slave well to your RYTM? Does the MD slave well to other clock sources?

twyce · 2014-11-27T08:42:55.000Z

I made several testing :

AR to MD : slight delay, with sometime start with big delay.
AR to MnM : same
AR to MPC1000 : same

MPC 1000 to AR : Best clock, all the time start in sync
MPC 1000 to MD : Best clock, all the time start in sync
MPC 1000 to MnM : Very small delay, all the time start in sync

MD to AR : good clock, all the time start in sync
MD to MPC1000 : same
MD to MnM : same

I tried a lot of cable, try to put midi merge, and try different setting, I didn’t notice any difference. I think the “problem” come from midi start, I have the feeling that sometime, the AR does not send the midi start exactly on time, that why there is a delay.

Anyway, in the future I will invest on “E-RM Midiclock+” or “SND ACME”.

mickeyziggyk · 2014-11-27T11:08:09.000Z

I have A4, OT, RYTM and never have any issues, except for ‘normal’ tempo drift which is fine.

This may sound silly, but you don’t have clock and transport to send and receive ‘on’ for all units do you?

What ever I slave, I always switch the slave to receive the clock and transport only.

t · 2014-11-27T12:22:19.000Z

@twyce I think there’s something wrong with your AR. I have never noticed this kind of delay with the AR as the master clock for my A4 and MPC-1000.

PeterHanes · 2014-11-27T13:35:00.000Z

""twyce"":

I made several testing :

AR to MD : slight delay, with sometime start with big delay.
AR to MnM : same
AR to MPC1000 : same

…

I tried a lot of cable, try to put midi merge, and try different setting, I didn’t notice any difference. I think the “problem” come from midi start, I have the feeling that sometime, the AR does not send the midi start exactly on time, that why there is a delay.

What are the values (in seconds) of the delays you are experiencing?

twyce · 2014-11-27T13:56:30.000Z

""PeterHanes"":

[quote=“twyce”]I made several testing :

AR to MD : slight delay, with sometime start with big delay.
AR to MnM : same
AR to MPC1000 : same

…

I tried a lot of cable, try to put midi merge, and try different setting, I didn’t notice any difference. I think the “problem” come from midi start, I have the feeling that sometime, the AR does not send the midi start exactly on time, that why there is a delay.

What are the values (in seconds) of the delays you are experiencing?[/quote]
The value is not fix, it is from “almost unoticable” to “1/16 step”

There is no mathematical logic of the delay variation. It could start good 5 times in a row, and one time with a big delay, or the opposite (this is so annoying).

And to be clear, this is not a problem of jitter, the clock is constant whenever there is delay or not between machine. It is when I start (push play) the machines. When I have delay, I must stop start, several time, until I have a good sync.

@mickey : I already use what you propose.

t · 2014-11-27T15:31:08.000Z

Again, this is simply not OK. I would open a support ticket with Elektron and take it up with them; your RYTM might need repair.