SY DUAL VCO Sub Bass Click Sound Design Issues

Elektron Gear Syntakt
#1

If you use the analog DUAL VCO and turn the OSC 2 on only (the sub) and put the decay to max, there is a nasty click at the start of every note. if you want to play a sub bass with strong sustain, you can’t really do that without a nasty click. So basically, you cant use the analog vco for sub bass with sustaining bass because when you play the next note you will get a bad click. I know this is reported as not a bug, but it basically makes the sub bass (as its often used in modern music today like 808 sustained bass style) unuseable. Note: The decay does not have to be max, that was just for simplicity in the example. If the decay is basically anything above 15 it will do this.

The only remedy is putting more space in between notes and shortening the decay of the sub bass, which sacrifices the character of the sub bass sound, or sacrifices the note sequencing.

if you want to play the sub bass without a click, you have to turn the decay on the SYN page to nearly zero. So then you have more like a kick drum or a short stab, instead of a cool sustained drone sub.

when I use the sub bass on any other synth I own, and setup a similar patch, any click can be alleviated by adding a touch of attack. Adding attack on the Syntakt does not remove the click.

I know this has been discussed a few times, but I want to just bring an example to the table of how it interrupts sound design or limits sound design options. and the sustained sub bass is such a common thing we do!

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#2

Maybe use a different machine, lots of them can do sub bass.

#3

ya but that growling tough analog dual vco is the coolest one for sub bass. and I think this occurs on each machine. when I read the other thread discussing it, it was a feature of all the synth machines.

#4

I’d suggest using the ADSR type envelope and turning the retrigger off in amp page 2?

Also double check your filter/env depth as any movement on that is going to cause fluctuation on the output too

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#5

Do you have your attack set to 0 on ADSR page? Because a click is usually expected on any mono synth if you retrig a oscillator mid cycle or abruptly open/close an amp envelope without any smoothening.
Try adding just a bit of attack and release and the clicks should go away.

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#6

^^^^ this

Sounds like youre cutting off the decay of the previous note

#7

@Skorheim and @Stlaub.

Unfortunately, it has very little or nothing do with the ADSR, and is only happening because of the Decay setting on the Synth Page. This was covered in a previous thread here Inconsistent clicks (analog machines) - Elektron Gear / Syntakt - Elektronauts. So, messing with the Attack, Release, or Amp Retrig on the AMP page has little to no impact. Obviously if you move the Attack to like 100% there is no click because there is no sound, but say set it to 80 (Half way) and you will still get the click. The only counter I have seen is putting the filter to 20 which does remove the click but also removes a lot of the character of the sub.

It is explained at length in that thread, and a poster sort of defends it as a feature. Maybe it is my lack of familiarity with mono synths (I don’t own any mono synths), but it does not seem very good to me.

I have been able to avoid this cutting into sound design in all my other adventures with the syntakt, but the sub bass sound is definitely affected by it.

#8

My guess is the oscillator is resetting. Does the click always happen consistently with the same volume?

#9

This is common behavior on analog gear as the OSC are not synced. They start where they at in the cycle.

A4 has a retrig function on the 2nd page of OSC2, maybe you OP find something similar or use a different machine.

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#10

All my analog synths do this to various degrees (AR, Rev2, Matriarch, MS-20). I’m inclined to believe the folk who say “it’s just how analog works”. On the AR, I find using the retrigger flavours of the oscillators doesn’t fix it as much as you’d hops.

Someone said upthread that it’s due to the Decay on the Oscillator page, not the ADSR. I can’t see how it makes any difference. They’re both a decay envelope. If you leave the ADSR open ( leave it at 0 attack and 0 release) then the Oscillator Decay functions like D and R. If you set Osc decay to 128/inf or whatever it has, then the ADSR becomes the more significant envelope. Both could click if they lead to sudden jumps in signal level around a retrigger.

#11

@Octagonist
I admit I really dont fully understand the relationship between the Decay on the OSC page and the decay in the ADSR. I feel like it’s easier to relate it to the decay on the osc page. Not sure why. IDK. Something is weird about it. I have 3 different analog synths here in my studio and not one of them creates a completely non musical and extremely loud click when trying to play a few notes of sustained sub bass. It is such a basic task for a synth imo. I do not have any mono synth my closes is the sub37. Maybe this is just mono behavior that I am completely unfamiliar with.

#12

I apply some attack and that gets rid of the clicks

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#14

Yup, I think this is the reason. If you use one of the osc modes where the oscillators run free (any of the ones where the little graphic does not start with a square), and then turn off amp envelope reset, you get the expected results (basically then the attack controls the amount of click you get).

I agree it’s sensitive and fairly confusing though. I think for any sustained sounds you probably want to have osc reset off, otherwise you risk clicks. As was mentioned, for non-sustaining perc sounds having osc reset on is sometimes helpful because then every trig has a more consistent attack. The fact that this machine can be used for both purposes makes it hard to know what to do at any given time.

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#15

Thanks for posting that. I couldn’t figure out how to get rid of the click because I thought I was supposed to be using the reset version of the oscillator. Using the free run version with the amp envelope reset off did the trick. Thanks!

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