Studio build questions

jmaggs · 2014-02-07T04:00:21.000Z

hi all. a definite n00b question here, but i’d appreciate the help.

i’ve had the machinedrum and monomachine for a while now and recently picked up analog keys. i have them all synced up and output into a relatively inexpensive behringer mixer (and a nice pair of tannoy studio speakers).

i love jamming out on these machines to pass the time and entertain guests, but i’d also like to get into some actual production work.

what other hardware do i need to get? i prefer a laptop over desktop, but am not sure how much power i really need (e.g. 4gb macbook pro?). also not sure what other peripheral equipment i need (m audio gear, wiring?) to connect to the laptop and produce some actual tracks. i’ve searched a bit but haven’t seen anything that concisely answered the question - figured you guys would be much better help.

what i’d generally like to do is craft the sounds with my gear and then master and produce on the laptop. i may be interested in pushing some samples from the laptop into the machines, but i mainly prefer to create my sounds without external samples.

thanks in advance!

KrisM · 2014-02-07T04:24:55.000Z

Do you want the option of recording all outputs at once? You’ll need an audio interface with a lot of inputs. OS X can let you aggregate multiple interfaces and treat them as one; I don’t know if Windows can do this or not, as I haven’t used it since XP.

If you’re happy to use the mixer or don’t mind recording 1-2 tracks at a time, then don’t worry about it and get the best converters you can in an interface with stereo line inputs. You don’t even need a MacBook Pro for that, an Air will suffice.

Laptops generally aren’t as bang for the buck as a desktop, and PCs are cheaper as a whole (I have an iMac and MacBook Air, btw) than Macs, but a good PC laptop will still cost a lot depending on what you want to do. Neither OS is going to be better than the other, so don’t worry about that.

If you just want stereo inputs, I’d be absolutely comfortable recommending the RME Babyface (very solid drivers and great latency) and a MacBook Pro if you want as much CPU you can get in a portable Mac.

jmaggs · 2014-02-07T04:45:14.000Z

thanks for the reply!

right now, i’m not really biased either way. i’m definitely used to playing all 3 machines at once, though i know that production work via software is a different game. mainly interested in better understanding my options and pros/cons of each. all of the stuff outside of my current setup is kind of greek to me. would need help in understanding what these other peripherals help accomplish.

and just to note, my machinedrum is the non-UW variety. seems that everyone and their mother has the higher end version, but i’ve loved the sounds my “lesser” piece can create and am happy with it. 100% willing to spend the time to synthesize my desired sounds with these more than capable pieces of gear.

Accent · 2014-02-07T05:53:51.000Z

Besides the computer, you need to consider your needs in a soundcard/mixer. Do you want to be able to mix ITB? If so, you need to consider something with enough inputs and outputs to accommodate your gear; furthermore ( and this can be the tricky part that requires really understanding the specs), a good majority of the devices out there that allow you to digitally record to the computer are only in stereo, especially with USB devices. If you want to multitrack, you want to make sure the device outputs each input in mono/stereo. Do you want to have the flexibility of recording the individual outputs from your Elektrons? Then you probably want an interface with 8 inputs or so.

After a few missteps, and much wailing and gnashing of teeth, I personally decided to get a Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, and a Presonus Digimax FS (connected via ADAT), giving me 16 mono/ 8 stereo inputs. I connect everything in stereo through a patchbay, and if I want to record from all 6 outs on the MD or MNM, it is as simple as just plugging a few cables into the patchbay. My outboard effects are connected to it as well, making it easy to patch in an effect when I need it without rerouting everything.

If you don’t need to go that route, a mixer with USB or FireWire should do just fine for you.

J_C_Selector · 2014-02-07T11:38:09.000Z

""jmaggs"":

and just to note, my machinedrum is the non-UW variety. seems that everyone and their mother has the higher end version, but i’ve loved the sounds my “lesser” piece can create and am happy with it. 100% willing to spend the time to synthesize my desired sounds with these more than capable pieces of gear.

I’m with you on that one.

jmaggs · 2014-02-07T15:31:36.000Z

""Accent"":

Besides the computer, you need to consider your needs in a soundcard/mixer. Do you want to be able to mix ITB? If so, you need to consider something with enough inputs and outputs to accommodate your gear; furthermore ( and this can be the tricky part that requires really understanding the specs), a good majority of the devices out there that allow you to digitally record to the computer are only in stereo, especially with USB devices. If you want to multitrack, you want to make sure the device outputs each input in mono/stereo. Do you want to have the flexibility of recording the individual outputs from your Elektrons? Then you probably want an interface with 8 inputs or so.

After a few missteps, and much wailing and gnashing of teeth, I personally decided to get a Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, and a Presonus Digimax FS (connected via ADAT), giving me 16 mono/ 8 stereo inputs. I connect everything in stereo through a patchbay, and if I want to record from all 6 outs on the MD or MNM, it is as simple as just plugging a few cables into the patchbay. My outboard effects are connected to it as well, making it easy to patch in an effect when I need it without rerouting everything.

If you don’t need to go that route, a mixer with USB or FireWire should do just fine for you.

i generally like work in poly mode in the AK and MnM, so i think stereo should be just fine for those. the MD would be more of a case for independent tracks (would need to pick up a lot of cables!).

i’m using the mixer right now because that’s the obvious way to consolidate the inputs and send to the speakers (plus, i like using the EQs and mixer effects as a 4th instrument). i figure it should be easy enough to handle that stuff with the DAW (e.g. i’m not married to my mixer).

TrabanT · 2014-02-07T16:08:23.000Z

how much do you want to spend?

what do you record with? software (ableton) ?

would you buy second hand used gear to try out?

my recommendation: post something that you are interested in getting to meet with other people to accumulate ideas and avoid errors, i am pretty sure somebody is willing to give you a hand …

i thought myself everything, now regretting I bought a big midi keyboard and a 2 channel input external usb soundcard and not a 4 in or 6 in

jmaggs · 2014-02-08T02:31:09.000Z

right now, i don’t have any software (still need to find the appropriate laptop - want apple though). i’ve never felt very comfortable with DAW s/w, so that which is more straight forward and plays nice with elektron gear is my ideal. also wouldn’t mind something with decent effects to layer over the tracks.

i do like the idea of having something along the lines of what accent posted. a friend at work was suggesting something along those lines as well before our convo was cut short.

would like to keep costs below $2.5k overall, though, i have to believe that provides plenty of wiggle room. and as for used, that’s perfectly fine - the laptop of course needs to be new though.

TrabanT · 2014-02-08T18:05:09.000Z

hey bro,

if it is just recording audio and using some effects and filter i recommend the free ableton 8 version…

i used this for over a year, it really does all you want and it is great to get to know the basics (and even more than the basics, dont reach for the stars because its just too overwhelming)

you get decent results with a 600 euro desktop pc and a external stereo sound card (100 - 200) euro

no need for fancy set ups yet!

as i said, get some second hand stuff first, a chepo pc will do it if you only use ableton for recordings and some filters and effects…

spending 2000 on equipment will get you nowhere unless you know the basics!

my two cents, my opinion, i do not claim to know best

jmaggs · 2014-02-08T21:28:41.000Z

agreed.

the biggest cost is for the laptop (i’d like to be able to use it for other uses aside from recording). then, figuring there’s cables that are needed, etc… if i’m buying hardware, that’s something i want to last for a good while. great tip on the DAW for sure. those have always been a challenge to get accustomed to.

accent’s post has been bouncing around in my mind a bit - and a coworker mentioned something along those lines as well.

jmaggs · 2014-02-08T21:51:14.000Z

actually, the h/w accent mentioned include software along as part of the package. not bad!

presonus digimax looks like a good direction.

Accent · 2014-02-08T22:22:08.000Z

""jmaggs"":

agreed.

the biggest cost is for the laptop (i’d like to be able to use it for other uses aside from recording). then, figuring there’s cables that are needed, etc… if i’m buying hardware, that’s something i want to last for a good while. great tip on the DAW for sure. those have always been a challenge to get accustomed to.

accent’s post has been bouncing around in my mind a bit - and a coworker mentioned something along those lines as well.

Here’s a Gearslutz thread I started about it that helped me eventually decide to go that route: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/electronic-music-instruments-electronic-music-production/872948-should-i-consider-patchbay-rack-mixer.html
Figure it might help you to weigh out some options.
One hidden cost of going the patchbay direction is cables. If you are in the States, I highly recommend Monoprice.com. Cost me around $100 to wire everything up, including extra cables for patching from the front panel.

monoman · 2014-02-08T22:48:41.000Z

I would buy an analog summer like this one here:

http://spl.info/en/products/summing-amps-mixers/mixdream-xp/short-description.html

After that i would recommend a good soundcard with enough outputs.

Then you can use the summer to sum the outputs. It’s better than summing digital, really!!! Trust me!

JES · 2014-02-09T00:36:57.000Z

Just a few tips. Spend the most money on the most permanent stuff and that which affects the sound in the room–monitors, treatment. Of course better converters are better but even a midline MOTU box is better quality than professionals were using not that long ago. I use a Mac and Live and love it but if I was going budget and not planing to be mobile, a PC desktop running Reaper and lots of free awesome plugs would be fine, especially if most of my music-making was in hardware. Cables, patch bay, hardware effects, all of that will outlast the computer and software.

For monitors, be sure to try them out with music you know.

Also, I’m not a big believer in analog summing, so trust your ears and judgment. Don’t buy without trying. For me, a good mastering engineer after I get done with it makes the biggest difference.

HTH.

jmaggs · 2014-02-09T22:24:27.000Z

for studio speakers, i have a pair of tannoy reveal 501’s. quite happy with them - they rival my kef/denon setup for my other entertainment setup (tv, stereo, dvd).

picked up a macbook pro (8gb) today. i’ll definitely start with free versions until i get my arms around this intermediary piece(s)…

still a little hung up on this patchbay concept. i understand that it will allow me to connect individual voices for individual tracks in the daw (please correct me if i’m mistaken)… from there, what do i connect into the laptop? would i need an audio interface of some sort, does the tm-1 have any value, etc?

also, do you guys prefer stereo, or individual tracks outputs (why?)?

thanks again. everyone’s feedback is much appreciated.

jmaggs · 2014-02-20T05:01:35.000Z

so out of curiosity, could this be a good solution for me? would the independent inputs into the mixer be read as independent tracks in the daw?

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ProFX16/

jmaggs · 2014-02-23T21:04:28.000Z

opted to pick up a presonus firestudio project. found a good deal for what seems to be an all-in-one package (includes all cables and studio one daw). plus, i like the firewire option.

looking forward to piecing everything together.

thanks everyone for your responses!