Stuck in a loop of jams

spacechase · 2015-03-23T08:26:53.000Z

In a bit of a pickle at the moment. As much as I love the Octatrack and working completely separate of the computer. I just find myself getting stuck in jams and not recording finished tracks.

Keep getting a bit overwhelmed by how I am best to approach it, do I record a whole bunch of stems into ableton and re arrange or do I try and create all the stems in the octa. In Ableton I would create a whole bunch of seperate recorded audio phrases and then lay them out as an arranged song, that stagnated the vibe for me though, hence the move to the Octa.

Anyway, I guess its all part of the musical journey. But if anyone has any tips for making things a bit more seamless and less open ended for me, that would be sweet!

nfim · 2015-03-23T09:38:38.000Z

I know the feeling, but I think the octa naturally lends itself to breaking out of this rut.

My suggestion: You have 16 patterns, 16 scenes and 4 parts in a song. As you fill them, you’ll start figuring out a performance to it: which crossfader movement here, how to transition to the next bit here… Now the track is half-finished, you go through it a couple of times to learn these performance bits, and then maybe solidify them in the arranger if you want to keep it in hardware, or at this point record to ableton. Just as a stereo mixdown at first, then start arranging by bringing in more elements from the octa if necessary. Overdub vocals and guitars, compress, excite, done.

I think you might be throwing stems into ableton too soon into the compositional process, hijacking the bit that the ot is best at (movement, variation, transition). Try forcing yourself to do more on the machine. Also: stop thinking of tracks as individual stems, rather just elements in a bigger piece of music. Give up on individual tracks and just do most of your mixing on the ot.

bauer · 2015-03-23T10:16:35.000Z

i feel your pain! i think this is quite a common problem. i like to do live sets too, so i’m always torn between wanting to use all the tools at my disposal to make tracks, but also have the option to easily/quickly incorporate them into a live set.

i originally started buying hardware as i decided that recording jams was my ‘thing’ and that building finished tracks wasn’t something i could do (or more accurately, i hated the process of getting things finished). ironically, i made more finished tracks with the hardware than i did in the DAW days.

sometimes i just record a stereo mixdown of a hardware jam/track, and other times i track the individual parts/stems in and then mix/edit them a bit.

ipassenger · 2015-03-23T10:34:10.000Z

It is a tricky one:

Track it all out in Abe : And then try and push the energy and fake the spontaneity back in.

Or record it all live from stereo out: And then you’re stuck getting the mix just so or the jam just isn’t that great even if your timing and changes are all spot on.

Generally I prefer to do the latter, it’s more fun but have had results doing the former that I just couldn’t have achieved without that method. It’s a trade off.

Bc3 · 2015-03-23T11:58:20.000Z

been trying to figure this out myself and currently taking the following approach: firstly you will need a way to sample accurately sync your elektron boxes to you DAW. expert sleepers just released a sync box called the USAMO which does exactly this. then you will be able to record multiple passes of different performances that are in sync and go back into the DAW and comp your favorite sections.

Accent · 2015-03-23T15:29:48.000Z

I strongly recommend getting into the Arranger. That is what finally helped me to stop dicking around and finish things. I try to get into it as soon as possible to force some sort of structure to emerge, otherwise I’ll get focused too much on patterns and infinite possibilities. I have to do the same thing with Ableton Live, getting out of Clip mode and working almost entirely in Arrangement.

spacechase · 2015-03-24T08:19:50.000Z

Great! Thanks for all the tips. It sounds like I’m not on my own then…

I don’t ever track individually into Ableton from the OT, I feel that would strip out the benefits of having the OT in the first place.

I haven’t even touched the arranger section yet, so maybe I should then!

Abhoth · 2015-03-24T08:44:16.000Z

I agree on the arranger. I also get stuck in a loop. If I force myself to start on a layout in the arranger, then it is much easier (and more tempting) to form a plan and make new stuff that fits within it.

Nikarga · 2015-03-24T08:59:42.000Z

Wow guys… the arranger.

The “Arranger”…

I will never frown and shy away from using the Arranger. I will never frown and shy away from using the Arranger. I will never frown and shy away from using the Arranger. I will never frown and shy away from using the Arranger. I will never frown and shy away from using the Arranger. I will never frown and shy away from using the Arranger. I will never frown and shy away from using the Arranger. I will never frown and shy away from using the Arranger. I will never frown and shy away from using the Arranger. I will never frown and shy away from using the Arranger. I will never frown and shy away from using the Arranger. I will never frown and shy away from using the Arranger. I will never frown and shy away from using the Arranger. I will never frown and shy away from using the Arranger. I will never frown and shy away from using the Arranger. I will never frown and shy away from using the Arranger. I will never frown and shy away from using the Arranger. I will never frown and shy away from using the Arranger. I will never frown and shy away from using the Arranger. I will never frown and shy away from using the Arranger.

I have never used it.

ipassenger · 2015-03-24T10:27:51.000Z

I have my Elektrons wired into a desk for a mix and also direct outs to the soundcard. So theoretically I could jam out on the machines and then edit just say the machinedrum part or whatever but I never do this.

I tend to like leaving the Octatrack as the mixer for the mono and md and then record the Octatrack only.

Direct Outs (from mixer to the soundcard) are useful though when you do the full track out thing in Ableton, speeds things up a bit having things already seperated to a degree.

smais · 2015-03-24T15:45:53.000Z

Re-Sample Jam > Make New Jam from Re-Sample > Re-Sample New Jam > Make Newer Jam From New Re-Sample > Re-Sample Newer Jam etc.

Dayaoute · 2015-03-24T17:26:15.000Z

+1 for the arranger.
I used it for the first time during the last science lab and discovered lots of new possibilities