Standalone finger drumming with sampled acoustic drumkits

chaocrator · 2023-09-12T05:45:35.712Z

JohntheSavage:

Mere mortals can absolutely play like that.

then why what we hear on recordings is assembled from „best of the best“ fragments taken from dozens of takes? that process is a lot of effort by itself!
seems like mere mortals are not sufficiently ideal.
or maybe great names you mentioned are, but regular session drummers aren’t.

JohntheSavage · 2023-09-12T06:25:21.468Z

Frankly?

The truth is that music labels, producers, and engineers alike have lost their nerve. They’re simply afraid to compete with the pitch-corrected and quantized pop music of the last two decades, and are reluctant to pay for real talent and the time it takes to make records organically, when here the listeners expect it all for free.

From that perspective, it’s faster, cheaper, easier, and safer to drag MIDI clips around on a laptop, click upload, and find some cute pop tartlet to lipsync.

Sadly, most of the time, I have no idea what modern music has to do with being a musician at all, except to say that there are still people out there, like myself and my colleagues, who do care and aspire to do it for real.

Cheers!

chaocrator · 2023-09-12T06:31:07.520Z

that’s exactly what i was talking about.
if music is not pitch-corrected, quantized and EQ’d to death – it just has near zero chances to be released properly these days.
(and that’s why i don’t even bother to make studio recordings.)

JohntheSavage · 2023-09-12T06:55:59.896Z

The chances are certainly much lower. I have to agree with that.

There’s a lot of noise to cut through, in an oversaturated market of fakes.

If it’s any consolation though, it has been my experience that, given the choice, most people would still rather support genuine talent, and do seem impressed, respectful, and appreciative when they come face to face with it.

To that end, for me, while I still do plenty of studio work, the live show remains the last bastion of integrity, and has been for the bulk of my career. Which is fitting really, because just a hundred years ago, and for thousands of years before that, live music was the only music.

Cheers!

Elek4 · 2023-09-12T07:51:41.274Z

Let’s get back to the original topic.

What you guys think of 1010Music Blackbox. Would that work? If I read correctly it can do 5 layers.

icaria36 · 2023-09-12T09:01:44.215Z

Why do you want 6 layers if then you need to finger drum on a touchpad?

I have the impression that you are paying more attention to specs than to the realities of finger drumming. As others have said before, the feeling of a realistic drum needs to come from your fingers first and no amount of layers will help you (in fact, more layers are likely to make satisfactory finger drumming more demanding).

Also, I doubt listeners not caring about seeing a finger drummer instead of a real drummer will even notice whether there are 4, 6, 12 or 256 layers.

My advice is: pick any of the suggestions above and start finger drumming. If and when you hit a limit, optionally sell your device (second hand market works decently) and get another one with whatever specific it was that you, your band/peers or your audience missed. If that times comes, you’ll get great advice at Elektronauts about what to try next.

g3o2 · 2023-09-12T09:31:33.640Z

In the professional world, that has nothing to do with musicianship. It’s done this way because we can. Technology enables us today to manage 1000 takes, whereas 60 years ago such an approach would have cost a fortune. It is also normal for an artist and a producer to strive for the best possible performance.

mabelsound · 2023-09-12T09:32:45.022Z

chaocrator:

then why what we hear on recordings is assembled from „best of the best“ fragments taken from dozens of takes?

This is just not true. Some recorded live drumming is edited, but most jazz and rock recorded by competent drummers consists of full takes with minor edits at best. I have literally recorded a few of these drummers myself, it’s not uncommon at all.

Also…cutting and pasting musical phrases is also a valid art form that can be equally expressive, if different!

g3o2 · 2023-09-12T09:34:31.572Z

mabelsound:

Also…cutting and pasting musical phrases is also a valid art form that can be equally expressive, if different!

A strategy particularly “popularised” (pun intended) by Andy Warhol.

Elek4 · 2023-09-12T11:17:07.278Z

icaria36:

Why do you want 6 layers if then you need to finger drum on a touchpad?

Of course a pad controller would be hooked up to it. I thought that would be clear.

Choopy · 2023-09-12T11:58:20.179Z

Just for precision on maschine+ , you can create on one pad layering sample i try 10 but i think it’s many more
You can use velocity in sequence for round robin solution too . I love use for drum only with octatrack for exemple

IMG_20230911_172848__014068×1998 2.61 MB

IMG_20230911_1730392304×1296 1.28 MB

Elek4 · 2023-09-12T12:42:14.263Z

That’s looking good. I also just read it can handle audio interfaces as well so now i’m thinking Maschine+ + SSL Big SiX. I think we have a winner.

KaOsphere · 2023-09-12T13:13:34.118Z

Choopy:

Just for precision on maschine+ , you can create on one pad layering sample i try 10 but i think it’s many more
You can use velocity in sequence for round robin solution too . I love use for drum only with octatrack for exemple

In fact, to be precise, you can layer one sample pet velocity value. Which means 128 samples per pad.
In practical use it is hard to actually be able to get all values playing by hand.

If I remember correctly ( sold my m+ a few month ago ) I’m pretty sure you cannot round robin samples in patterns/sequences because each velocity value is stored in a step, and the same step will always sounds the same, more like a sound lock/slice. The lfo on velocity only affects volume output of the sample unfortunately, and not its actual postion in the vel map, which is a bit of a shame. ( ™ Nick Batt ).

Choopy · 2023-09-12T13:44:51.929Z

You are right, but I was talking about the live fingerdrum aspect of course
.

KaOsphere · 2023-09-12T13:48:52.167Z

Sorry, the term " sequence" tricked me !

Choopy · 2023-09-12T14:06:14.222Z

Me too … Lol
Sorry im french
With variation fct i think you can put some aleatory on velocity, but it’s just a knew pattern off course.

If i use maschine like a MPC (first philosophy) just sampling and create , i think it’s a dope machine !
If i want create a kit for fingerdrum it’s a dope machine . ( Drumsynths are very useful)
If i use like Modx rompler tool , VA , Fm , multi sample etc to create a beauty synth just to play with keyboard, it’s a dope machine !
I love Raum , Fm8 , Prism , Drumsynth etc…
For a ''mallet ‘’ or ‘‘percusive’’ box it’s a dope machine.
But if i wan’t to use many instances of monark or prism, fx etc it’s very complicate , it’s not a dope machine
So resampling method is a solution.

Elek4 · 2023-09-12T17:45:06.302Z

Choopy:

aleatory

Hot damn I learnt a new English word. I sound drunk when I say it though.

Elek4 · 2023-09-12T17:50:59.851Z

What about Maschine+ being out only 3 years and not having any update last 1.5 year.
Any feelings on that? Any stupid bugs that should’ve been fixed by now or other stuff?

Choopy · 2023-09-12T19:09:27.437Z

Random in French is a common word
“random” maybe it’s better for this context!

I’ve had it since the beginning but it was changed the first time I used it… I was very scared… Lol
But since then (but I remind you that my use is really old school Mpc, see Octatrack in the vision and design.)
I only use 6 pads sometimes on maschine and the p/locks, (octatrack only has 8 tracks after all and yet it is my favorite equipment for building!), I use it as a module and as a groove designer .
I use it to have long live synth sequences, or other long recordings, more difficult to do on octa or less immediate, in fact I really try to use the strengths of both.
I also use it to simply load a drum or djembe kit and play!

But if I use it as one could use it on a PC, unfortunately it’s too tight.
This means bounces to avoid cracking the processor etc.
That being said, FM8 is not very demanding.
Prism on the other hand…one instance is already good!
The loopers are greedy because of the time strech in real time I suppose). It is better to bounce and sequence if we go further in the composition.
The fct morph is superb but also requires a lot of CPU if you make a long transition, but instantly it’s very good.

So no bugs and crashes if I keep that in mind.
In midi clock it’s straight in midi slave so it’s cool and rare
I have been a user since the mk1 and I have also looked elsewhere, and I am still skeptical about the philosophy of NI which now looks more like a creator of prefabricated content.
But objectively it’s quality and professional on the synth it’s even crazy for a standalone and especially for someone (like me) used to the limitations of an octatrack, digitakt etc.
Gtranslate sorry
I’m not recommending any equipment though.

JohntheSavage · 2023-09-12T19:53:08.133Z

Between this option and the Blackbox query you made, I’m confused as to why you wouldn’t just use a pad controller with a laptop or tablet then?

Cheers!