Stam Audio SA4000 (SSL Clone)

Ok, so I have had a few more or less random hours with the SA4k now. Sorry to say, I haven’t managed to A/B it against the UAD plugin yet…

But what I can tell you is that this thing sounds bloody good! One very interesting side effect of tracking audio through it is, for some reason or other, the recorded audio takes post-processing alot better than without running through it. Certainly some kind of audio conditioning going on.

Like, you record some vox through it with slamming settings, the DAW waveform looks so nasty you’d be sure the clip will sound distorted to hell & awful, and instead the vox just sounds firm and punchy! Same with drums, you slam an A4 drumbeat through, seems to just get better and better the more you push it (okok, up to a point, but still!) whereas I often feel like software comps just start to sound really annoying when pushed.

I am fairly confident that combined with the heat, I will not be needing more 2bus processing for a while…

That A/B against the UAD G buss is still forthcoming tho! soon

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@tsutek Do you have an A/B with the UAD SSL?

I´m on the fence for some hardware stuff for analog summing and compression … but not sure how much the difference really is in 2019.

Sorry, haven’t bought the UAD 4K busscomp yet. No A/B’s either, and unfortunately I’m too busy right now to make any.

All I can say that its a bit of a PITA dealing with hardware sidechaining and wet/dry parallel processing with the SA4000 mk I. If you do decide to get one, make sure its the improved mk II model with built-in wet/dry etc :wink:

I’m currently in the middle of mixing a record, and I don’t even want to think how much of a hassle using the SA4000 on the final mixes will be :zonked: And in the end, I might decide it sounded better bypassed after all :diddly:

What I can say is that with my current skillset (ie no SSL comp ninja), using the SA4000 is a nice little “cherry on top” thing for adding a touch of cohesion to a final mix. Its not going to introduce a dramatic change to anything that isn’t already very well balanced and pretty sounding. From what I’ve read, busscomps such as the API 2500 and the Manley Vari-Mu give a much more drastic change, at least for techno & club music styles.

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get an SPL unit – Kulttube

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I love SPL gear, unfortunately its priced above my paygrade… All I could afford was my SPL Crimson 3. I bet any SPL busscomp is going to cost at least twice as much as an SA4000

yeah the UAD API 2500 is allways on my drum bus. Even the Waves API was “not bad”, it´s just a little other colour then the UAD Version.

I demoed the Manley Vari-Mu on the master channel but didn´t liked it that much. For me it was to much saturation. But still in love with the Manley Massive Passive on the master!

UAD SSL G is my go to bus compressor at the moment. But would be interesting to see if the plugin can hold up against a real Hardware compressor.

One Thing I noticed, that when bouncing it mostly sounds a bit different (BETTER!!!) then when just working in the DAW. Meaning … while working and adjusting the paramaters, what you hear is not what you really get. Hard to explaine … but I guess it´s because when bouncing some / all plugins switch into a kind of high quality mode with higher upsampling.

That sounds peculiar to me… I thought all UAD plugins sound the same in realtime as when rendering? I mean, wouldn’t there be a special mention about that somewhere in the manuals, since that would also mean that plugins running inside the UA Console would sound different than when using them for rendering?

But are you sure what you are experiencing is not psychology-based? To my ears, everything sounds better when listened to a stereo audio file instead of the running DAW session… I’ve always written that off as “tricks in me head” :nyan:

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Maybe that is different! I can´t talk about the unison mode plugins or running plugins inside the UAD console app. I don´t have an Apollo. Using UAD Satalite with RME Fireface and Ferrorfish converter

I just noticed that with working and bouncing in Logic.

EDIT: I wanted to clarify I’m really just speaking on hardware vs. software for this particular reference – bus compression. There’s other areas like EQ’s and Pre’s where I find certain hardware to have a much more substantial difference. Hope that helps.

I don’t have an SA4000, but I have a Tegeler Creme that includes what’s more a less a very similar G style compressor. I did compare it to the UAD along with several other software emulations (Waves, The Glue and a couple of others). I also have to keep things in context… I use it as a bus compressor largely for mastering, so I’m not ‘slamming’ it. I’m generally never more than 2-3db gain reduction.

At lower compression levels @ 2:1 or 4:1 ratios the UAD is very close to my hardware. Eerily so at times. You’re basically chasing the last 5% or less of difference most of the time. Where things start to change more is the harder you push the compressor and with more aggressive ratios. Then it starts to get a bit more apparent. When you’re really pushing it (levels no one would likely do except for some creative effect) the hardware maintains its composure much better than the plugins. The hardware never sounds ‘bad’… just too much compression whereas the plugins start to sound pretty ‘meh’ when pushed that hard. Overall, I prefered the UAD the most out of all the emulations, but that’s not to say any of them are bad. For my ears, the UAD sounded closest to my hardware emulation.

What gets overlooked a lot I think when people compare plugins vs. hardware is the make-up gain and just gain staging overall in the analog domain. That’s really where it’s more pleasing for me than just straight compression differences. Adding gain in software isn’t adding much to the overall sound (just gain) whereas adding 2-3db on the output of the Creme is also adding subtle flavor. I could try to give you some cliche analog platitude, but those are completely subjective and personal, so I think it’s kind of meaningless in the end. It just sounds better.

If I couldn’t have the hardware I’d be very happy with the UAD. The hardware is a luxury IMO at this point and I’m fortunate enough to do it, however, I don’t feel it’s a requirement for most people. I think in most cases you’re looking at 5-10% differences in varying elements and not always at once. It’s very situation dependent. Some might call that ‘night and day’, but I genuinely think its about overall context. If you want that last little bit for whatever your situation is… awesome.

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thanks for your opinion and sharing your experience! Yes that´s it what I´m asking about. And this goes also for the analog summing outside the box. Does it make really that much difference nowadays? I work in 96K in Logic using 64bit summing. If it would sound band, they would not have implemented into the software. Same goes for plugins … and true, I see a lot of people making very good music just using DAW internal plugins. hmpf :smiley:

And then I listen to some good techno stuff from the 90s (Basic Channel and stuff …) and I´m wondering how they got this character in the sound.

Apologies… I don’t mean to derail the thread. Just trying to be helpful. Also, these are just my ‘internet guy’ opinions, so as usual, take them for what they’re worth. I’ve been doing this for a good while though, so hopefully that counts for something.

When you say analog summing I think something like an SSL Sigma and that’s probably what you mean as well. I personally don’t feel that it’s worth the effort and cost. Does it make a difference? Yes, absolutely, but IMO more subtle and gentle. I don’t think it’s as substantive as a lot of people would make it out to be or more realistically what they want it to be. Probably not the big picture change a lot of people want to chase.

It’s really interesting you bring up the 90’s comment though and I think it’s very relevant, but maybe not in the way you’re thinking. IMO, all that character came from noisy or somewhat noisy analog mixers (depending on what you had), analog synths, lower resolution sample rates and DAC’s. That was the character good or bad. We all chased this constantly moving idea of ‘clean’ and ‘high end’ until now that we have it (hardware or software) we’re back to wanting a lot the sound we largely ran from. I was guilty of doing it more than most probably.

Just yesterday I helped mixed down a track for a friend (well established electro artist) which was all in Ableton. It sounded pretty good, but we decided to stem the mix out to hardware. He still has a Yamaha 02r (I had one too in the early 2000’s) which by today’s standards shouldn’t age well at all. Most of today’s gear, on paper anway, has much if not far better specs. We separated it out, also having to go from 24/96 to 16/44 and it sounded great… better than the ITB mix we had. It had more punch, separation and fullness to it. Why? There’s something to be said for less than perfect gear. Those easily distorted converters have their own character and sound to them. That includes all of the extra conversions since we went analog to the O2r where it converted twice, then analog back to the Focusrite where it was converted yet again. People would have you believe this should all sound terrible, yet, it doesn’t.

We wouldn’t have gotten the same result from ‘better’ converters, really clean desk or going all digital to the O2r and back… we actually needed worse gear and more conversions! We got that tone, flavor and punch. Sure, that’s not going to work for everything, but I’m talking in the context of electro and not recording/mixing something like classical guitar or orchestra.

On the flip side, when I go to master it, I don’t necessarily want big changes… I want clean and subtle (for the most part). We already got the vast majority of the flavor in the mix and I’m not trying to add too much more, so it becomes a lot more about last 5-10% and not the first 80-90%.

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I often wonder if BC recorded their masters to tape…

Here comes a new challenger

Warm Audio

https://warmaudio.com/bus-compressor/

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Oh yeah - this is definitely something that I’ll keep an eye on. Thanks for sharing!

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