[spin-off topic] Reliability of hardware vs computers

and much, much more to go wrong on a commercial airliner, yet there is only one fatal accident for every 16 million flights.

Complexity ≠ Danger

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before going 100% hardware, i was maintaining my own linux build for stage use, and inventing double-computer high-availability setups for stage use. it’s fun, but i preferred to spend my time off (which is limited) rehearsing.

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Just came back from a classical concert at the Philarmonie here in Paris.
During the cello concerto, the cello guy blew a string right in the middle of a crazy solo part. They had to stop to replace it!

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Aircraft are also heavily overengineered specifically to deliver on mission critical MTBF.

I can’t imagine anyone here will make the same claim for Microsoft or Apple. :joy:

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That’s fine, as it was not intended to be a direct comparison, just evidence that complexity doesn’t go hand in hand with danger.

The point is, if you care enough it being mission critical, you can take precautions to offset the “complexity” that may make a computer more prone to failure than a hardware synth would be.

Choosing which components are used, which software, routine inspections. Etc.

My argument was against the notion that just because there is more that could go wrong, doesn’t necessarily mean that more will go wrong.

Moving on…

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Computers in the context of what most people consider a modern computer are very different from (most) hardware sequencers in that dedicated hardware often isn’t built on top of a desktop operating system designed for other uses, and all the implications that come with that.

Windows in particular is really not a good platform for musical applications (mac a little but not much better) in my opinion due to the thousands of other things going on in the background, it is a miracle that it even works as ok as it does some of the time, personally I can’t be motivated to maintain a computer for any heavy duty musical tasks, although for editing audio and making back ups of hardware gear they are indispensable.

But for creating music I prefer the reliability of hardware - although it has to be agreed that modern complex hardware can be quite buggy these days, still I have never lost more than a few things on hardware in 30 years, in contrast losing a whole hard drive on a computer has happened to me about 4 times in the same period, not to mention flash drives etc.

Still, if you have the patience and discipline to work with a computer it is a bit daft not to really, the benefits are far in excess of hardware, and have been for some years now. But I don’t think this is the whole story for everyone, certainly not me, workflow is also very different - in my case using a computer feels like work, using hardware feels like play, it probably speaks more of my motivatons/conceptions though as I have seen without a doubt people playing their computers, and actually I find that kind of thing far more interesting than a DAW.

Erm, rambling :joy:

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The cello player should have jumped up and smashed his cello on the ground (ala Pete Townsend). That would have been a show.

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Who doesn’t bring a back-up cello to a gig ~ sheesh.

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My Elektron machines freeze from time to time, and yes they’re still considered computers.

I would suggest that there is no real evidence to show that personal computers are any less reliable than hardware.

I would also suggest that what most influences the reliability of a personal computer is the end user.

I believe it is perfectly possible and fairly straightforward to maintain a computer for music without being overly concerned with reliability.

With regard to people stating their experiences of computer component failure, you only have to trawl through this forum, and the old elektron forum, to discover that hardware reliability is certainly not guaranteed. Other manufacturers forums tell a similar story.

With regard to the aviation industry, things do break on aircraft but critical systems have built in redundancy. Also, pilots fly the aircraft but engineers maintain them.

I’ve had more crashes with my last MD UW+ than with my computer dedicated to live shows.
Also, when I bought a Rytm, it froze the first time I switched it on.
I tend to trust computer over hardware machines because backups are easier. So if something serious happen I know I can recover my stuff. Anyone who ever tried to make a complete backup of a MDUW+ with sample and all knows what I talking about.

Computers can be as reliable as hardware. The problem is people buy lower end computers, especially PCs, and expect them to perform top notch.

what most influences the reliability is too many possible combinations of hardware and software.
this makes things unpredictable, because in general purpose OSes everything can impact anything. (and it’s often very hard to track & debug.)

btw, one of the most important reasons why mac is better than windoze in terms of stability is the fact that mac is far more limited (less of supported hardware, less of available software).

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And of course it is the end user who determines what software resides on their computer and, specifically on a PC, can also change internal components.

I suspect that something like a Dell computer will match the supposed reliability of a Mac, basically because Dell ensure good component match and limit the BIOS options.

One of the things why I prefer Windows 10 to Mac nowadays is that I don’t have to worry about an update messing up any of my vsts or other software . Unlike Mac where even disabling updates didn’t help from Apple forcing an update eventually which then messed up a lot of things.

My windows 10 has been automatically updating since it was released and no problems :slight_smile:

Pro tip: dont be one of those guys that has to update the second an update comes out. Wait a month. The bugs get sorted.

Ive used macs since 92. Never had an issue once. I did have a momentary lapse of reason in 2002-2004, when i bought a PC. Shit went corrupt, lost all my music scenes, it corrupted my external HD as well. Will never buy a PC ever again.

When you have a closed architecture you are more secure. When you are built around third party products, expect issues…regularly.

To reiterate, dont auto update or feel the need to be current every second of every day. Wait for those pinheads to find the bugs for you. Both systems have issues, one side is just deadly and more open than the other.

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Phae, pro tip: don’t just assume things about a person and then go ahead and base advice on that. :wink:

I have worked with both Mac and windows for a lot of years extensively.

For Mac I always stayed 2 years behind the newest OS. Somehow they forcely updated certain updates anyway (as I said in my previous post) breaking stuff.

My point was: with the current windows there is no point in turning off auto update as it doesn’t break anything in my experience using it from the very beginning it was released. Windows 10 is really stable in that. So it’s not about having the latest update. It’s about it not making a difference.

Windows used to be unstable yes. With windows 10 they really got there stuff together.
Anyway, let’s not turn this into a Mac versus windows discussio. That wasn’t my intention.

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Pro pro tip: tone down the snark in your initial response, and get a less tearse response.

Hm? I didn’t snark?

If it came across like that, eh sorry I guess…

Me too :kissing_heart:

Lets move on. :+1:

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