Sounds not changing instantly when changing pattern

lemons · 2014-12-06T11:49:00.000Z

I have recently bought Analog Keys having owned Analog Four before.

With my new Analog Keys I have noticed a strange thing that I did not notice with Analog Four.

I hope someone can help me to decide If I need to return the unit or send it for repairs (hopefully not):

If I have a kick drum type sound in the first track on one pattern and I have some other type of sound in the first track on another pattern, the kick drum is silent for a while when changing from another pattern to the one that has the kick drum sound while playing a sequence.

If I mute all other tracks but the one that is silent at first I can hear that the sound gradually becomes louder until it reaches it’s full loudness (this takes maybe 10 seconds). If I play a note with high velocity on the keyboard, the sound becomes loud instantly.

What could be causing this, is my new Analog Keys faulty? As it works now, the unit is useless for changing patterns while playing live for example.

smokyfrog · 2014-12-06T11:57:52.000Z

Try switching voice-sharing off and see if it improves. I’ve pretty much stopped using voice sharing until I get some time to sit and work out what is going wrong. I’ve been getting large and unexpected volume variations in my A4 module and it seems, to me, that some voice attributes aren’t being juggled properly but it’s more noticeable in some cases than others.

lemons · 2014-12-06T12:06:53.000Z

You mean polyphony? I don’t have it enabled.

I also created support ticket to Elektron about this, hopefully I could get a confirmation about the cause of this issue soon so I could figure out if I can keep this synth.

smokyfrog · 2014-12-06T12:12:21.000Z

Interesting. That’s me totally baffled then (doesn’t take much). Good luck!

lemons · 2014-12-06T12:44:12.000Z

I found another thread that seems to describe pretty much the same issue that I am having: Why do trig sounds drop out?

If this really is a “feature” that Elektron has no intention to fix then I feel cheated. I expect them to fix this issue as this is not acceptable for me, hopefully they respond to my support ticket soon.

After all, aren’t parameter locks with instant sound changes one of the selling points for this synth (however, I noticed the issue even without parameter locks, just by changing patterns).

Also it is strange that I don’t recall noticing this issue with Analog Four but I noticed it immedeately with Analog Keys.

avantronica · 2014-12-06T14:02:25.000Z

""lemons"":

If this really is a “feature” that Elektron has no intention to fix then I feel cheated.

I expect them to fix this issue as this is not acceptable for me,

After all, aren’t parameter locks with instant sound changes one of the selling points for this synth

useless …

steady on cowboy, you’re in danger of sounding, dare i say, naive and spoiled, not wishing to rain on your parade or sound belittling, but this is just a simple fundamental matter of electronics, not errant coding, this has been made clear and is discussed countless times in other threads, those sounds won’t work in that way, work with that or use differently structured sounds, to be fair, it’s not exactly marketed as a drum machine specifically, so i don’t think they’ll break sweat on this one, i like to use it that way and i’m pernickety, but you ain’t gonna change this outcome, the A4 and AK are identical in this regard
is it a great synth ? you can answer this for yourself
is it less of a synth because the nature of electronics means that some sound designs have nuances, no, absolutely not
does it help your cause to think you’re being cheated or that your expectations need addressing, ask yourself
i’m asking myself why i’m signing up for a barrage of abuse following this post, but this is a community, let’s keep it supportively positive and we’ll all learn a little, turn it into a gearslutz whinge-fest and it’ll go downhill fast
ironic eh, here i am moaning about moaning !
enjoy it for what it is, as you know, that’s a lot

lemons · 2014-12-06T14:18:41.000Z

[quote=““avantronica””]

lemons:

If this really is a “feature” that Elektron has no intention to fix then I feel cheated.

I expect them to fix this issue as this is not acceptable for me,

After all, aren’t parameter locks with instant sound changes one of the selling points for this synth

useless …

steady on cowboy, you’re in danger of sounding, dare i say, naive and spoiled, not wishing to rain on your parade or sound belittling, but this is just a simple fundamental matter of electronics, not errant coding, this has been made clear and is discussed countless times in other threads, those sounds won’t work in that way, work with that or use differently structured sounds, to be fair, it’s not exactly marketed as a drum machine specifically, so i don’t think they’ll break sweat on this one, i like to use it that way and i’m pernickety, but you ain’t gonna change this outcome, the A4 and AK are identical in this regard
is it a great synth ? you can answer this for yourself
is it less of a synth because the nature of electronics means that some sound designs have nuances, no, absolutely not
does it help your cause to think you’re being cheated or that your expectations need addressing, ask yourself
i’m asking myself why i’m signing up for a barrage of abuse following this post, but this is a community, let’s keep it supportively positive and we’ll all learn a little, turn it into a gearslutz whinge-fest and it’ll go downhill fast
ironic eh, here i am moaning about moaning !
enjoy it for what it is, as you know, that’s a lot[/quote]

I am sorry if I don’t meet your expectations for a proper Elektron fanboy, but if I pay close to €1500 for a synth, I expect it to work as advertised.

I think Elektron should not advertise their product by saying that “It is even possible to change Sounds per sequencer step” if that is not really the case “because of how electronics work”.

By the way, the issue seems way more noticeable for me on track 1 than on the other tracks. So it seems some circuits are more prone to the issue than others perhaps? It is also strange that if I play a key from the keyboard, I instantly get the kick sound, but for the sequencer it takes more than ten seconds to reach full volume.

avantronica · 2014-12-06T14:42:24.000Z

i have made sounds which were extraordinary on a given track that were wide of the mark on others, that’s electronics, it’s not a VA, i live with that. maybe they’ll do something creative for you to stimulate those circuits, but i can guarantee that if you go about it more positively you’ll have better outcomes, i’m no fanboy, i moan as much as the next (wo)man, i try to do it in a way that might be credible… anyway, knock yourself out with your own approach, it’s a free world and that’s why i’m happy to say i completely disagree with your assessment on how they ought to advertise plocks/slocks

lemons · 2014-12-06T15:00:44.000Z

Reading about support tickets taking months to get a reply from Elektron does not make me feel like writing positively about the issues I am facing.

Also seeing as similar issue that I’m facing was reported in the earlier thread three months ago with no acknowledgement from Elektron, it does not seem to me it is going to get fixed.

Furthermore, since I did not notice this problem with Analog Four, it makes me feel something is faulty with my Keys and that of course annoys me as I have only had it for two days!

Automux · 2014-12-06T16:49:26.000Z

""lemons"":

I am sorry if I don’t meet your expectations for a proper Elektron fanboy, but if I pay close to €1500 for a synth, I expect it to work as advertised.

I think Elektron should not advertise their product by saying that “It is even possible to change Sounds per sequencer step” if that is not really the case “because of how electronics work”.

By the way, the issue seems way more noticeable for me on track 1 than on the other tracks. So it seems some circuits are more prone to the issue than others perhaps? It is also strange that if I play a key from the keyboard, I instantly get the kick sound, but for the sequencer it takes more than ten seconds to reach full volume.

Sounds per step so far have worked fine for me. If in certain cases it does not then frankly I’m not going to sweat it. I wasn’t around for this era but did people in the 70’s/80’s complain about how their analog synths would go out of tune from stage lights or their studio varying in temperature? At least we are past that but yes these are still analog circuits and still can be susceptible to environmental conditions to a point. Ever work with electronics at all? Resistors actually have a labelled rating of what the percentage of variance they have. Two resistors created in the same batch could work slightly different from each other but as long as they stay within that variance then they are deemed acceptable and will ship.

On a more constructive note. The A4/Keys have a calibration option. If one track sounds different from the rest then you may just need it to auto calibrate. I’m still trying to find the details on how to correctly calibrate but I did read a suggestion of keeping the AK on for about 30 minutes, maybe play with it a bit to help warm up / stimulate the circuits, and then run through the calibration. You might just want to wait to hear from Elektron support first but it could be that simple.

PeterHanes · 2014-12-06T21:29:31.000Z

""lemons"":

…

By the way, the issue seems way more noticeable for me on track 1 than on the other tracks. So it seems some circuits are more prone to the issue than others perhaps? It is also strange that if I play a key from the keyboard, I instantly get the kick sound, but for the sequencer it takes more than ten seconds to reach full volume.

On the other thread that you linked to, it was pointed out by forum member void that:

it is a quirk with the analog audio engine… certain patches which depend on filter 2 low cutoff / high resonance, especially kicks, are susceptible to this

From what I read on the forum, it seems that it only occurs with high resonance sounds that are immediately preceded in the sequence by other sounds.

avantronica · 2014-12-06T22:37:21.000Z

there are a few more threads on this, because everyone discovers it at some stage and they seem to accept that that’s how it is, that’s electronics, that’s how this synth is soldered up

http://www.elektronauts.com/t/what-causes-the-first-kick-after-unmuting-to-sound-muffled/1180/7224

What's happening with my bass drum sounds? Analog Keys/Four

I wonder if anybody can help with this. My bass drum sounds sometimes seem to drift dramatically from being powerful to thin. I can’t figure out why but I’m wondering if it’s something to do with the stability of the filter. I’ve set the oscillator to retrigger with each note so we can rule that out. I know that all the power from an analogue synth bassdrum sound comes from finding sweet spots for a resonant filter, specifically it’s decay and sustain values etc - and also the pitch bend time …

Disappearing Sounds Analog Keys/Four

im relatively new to the A4, but I think I understand how it all works. My problem is: making a drum track, using sound locks, Im finding the original kick sound seems to fade in and out/dissapear - the soundlocked sounds seem to always play back properly. Ive checked LFO’s long envelopes, delay…everything -the kick is a pretty standard kick. Any ideas?

etc etc

everyone makes peace with it, well …

smokyfrog · 2014-12-07T09:14:23.000Z

Very interesting, it would have been great to have read an explanation in the manual to have a chance of grasping this much sooner. Personally, I like to understand how things work and why they sometimes don’t work as expected. It might be that more experienced electronics engineers could have suggested an enhancement or even devised a solution. A friend of mine has made improvements to some recent Moog and DSI synths, for example.
Ah well, back to the music…

lemons · 2014-12-07T14:35:54.000Z

I did some more testing and it seems I can mostly eliminate the problem by adding some noise to the kick drum patch. I guess I can live with this issue, at least it’s good to know my synth is not faulty if everyone has this same issue. I do think it is quite strange that I previously owned Analog Four for six months and didn’t notice this then but I guess it is possible :).

It would still be nice if Elektron could somehow fix (or at least officially acknowledge) this problem of course.

avantronica · 2014-12-07T16:53:34.000Z

thankfully everyone’s cool again, but you’d best not think about this as a problem, a resonating filter with no input can not resonate, once there’s a head of steam from a noise floor or whatever it will sing, but that takes time, there’s no problem, you’ve got a work around to kick the filter off, but by sound locking just prior to this no-input filter you’re cleaning the slate, it’ll take time, or input to start resonating - a string may resonate given the right amount of time in the wind, but you can kick it off by plucking it, although it won’t self oscillate for ever thereafter like a filter, not a problem !!