Soundforce SFC-5 V2

Yes, agreed. I leave it mapped to everything though, because the whole point for me is to reduce clicking. :slight_smile:

here you go.

Hardware:

This thing is top notch. No hyperbole here. The potentiometer shafts are bolted onto the faceplate (nuts right under the knob skirts). The result is, shockingly, more firm and rigid than even my Pro 2’s pots.
Zero wobble, zero flex.

The knobs themselves are a nice grippy rubber. Skirted, and with wide ridges and bright white indicators. These are good knobs that feel nice and do what you need them to do.

The layout is a bit of a compromise between Repro-5 and Arutira Prophet V.
The layout is distinctly Repro-5, with its two envelopes laid out vertically, but it is missing the OSC coarse knobs. No worry though, as I really only need one of those and so I map it to the pitch range knob without issue. Alternatively, shift+freq on both Oscillators works for this, as well. I’m still trying to decide which I prefer.

While the layout is in the Repro-5 style, the additional (and traditional) buttons for legato, release, hold, present on the Prophet 5, are welcome for use with Prophet V.

The walnut sides are a nice touch. Nothing about this controller feels cheap. The LEDs are nice and bright. Soundforce uses the same dark, rounded hex screws on the faceplate as Elektron does. The USB port is in the back corner, so good for getting it out of the way on a busy tabletop, if you’d like the back of the unit to butt-up to other instruments.


Integration with software

Repro-5

Mapping it to Repro-5 took me just a few minutes. The user knobs and buttons are helpful for all the additional things Repro-5 can do, Mod matrix depth, FX, etc.

Repro-5 does not show the numerical value of the parameter while you adjust it with MIDI control, the way it does while you adjust it with a mouse. So this makes tuning a little more of a challenge, especially on the master tune and OSC freq knobs. For this reason I don’t map the master tune knob (which opens it up for 2 more mappings, when shift function is also considered).

You also start to run into feature limitations with Repro-5. For instance, I’d love to map the previous preset and next preset buttons to the User 4 and User 5 buttons. Arturia synths do this, and it is nice! I’ve requested this and Urs has said it is a widely requested feature, but implementation comes with some caveats. There is discussion on his U-He sub-forum on KVR.
Another limitation is the only FX on/off switch that is midi mappable in Repro-5 is the Distortion. The other’s are not. So, I end up leaning on the reverb/chorus/delay mix parameters, mapped to User knobs on the SFC-5. Fortunately, I have a somewhat fast i7 iMac, so keeping those FX on, even if the mix is turned down, isn’t an issue while patching.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, using the “double tap shift” to send all current values of the SFC-5 to Repro-5 is a great feature. It will update every parameter you have mapped on the controller, and accurately. It will not update any parameters not mapped, and since some are not mappable, that is a consideration. This includes FX on/off, Mod matrix destinations, Velvet FX algorithm, etc.
It is best to start with an INIT patch if you want the full parity experience. But sending the current values to existing patches does generate some fun, and not too off the wall results. So it’s good to explore both methods.

Arturia Prophet V

I won’t dig deep on the sound differences between this plugin and Repro-5, but I think it’s common knowledge that they don’t sound exactly the same, and the Repro-5 sounds better (fuller, richer) to most people. Arturia’s offering is still quite useful, and can go up to 32 voices, and has its own brand of “vintage” inspired FX. It also has Prophet VS attachment, but I’ll get into that later.

There’s an included mapping preset file on the Soundforce website for Arturia Prophet V, so mapping is even faster. The three User knobs on the SFC-5 are premapped to the 3 Chorus FX parameters on the Prophet V. I think it’s a great starting point. The only tweak I made was deleting the master tune knob, since I don’t play with a band that I need to tune to.
This also opens up the master tune knob on the SFC-5 as a User knob of sorts, and the newer updates of Arturia’s V plugins have the 4 macro knobs at the bottom for “brightness”, “timbre”, “time”, and "movement. If you’re into macros and preset surfing, this makes those 4 knobs along the bottom of the SFC-5 ideal for mapping to the four macros.

As mentioned earlier in the Repro-5 limitations, Arturia Prophet V (and other V series plugins) allow for MIDI mapping of the preset previous/next buttons. Ideally linked to the User 4 and Use 5 buttons on the SFC-5. But keep in mind these are switches, and not momentary buttons. So to use them for this feature means pressing them twice, each time. Beats using a mouse!

The “double press shift” to send all values does weird things with Arturia plugins IF you also have buttons mapped to preset previous/next. Even from an init patch. Parity is not achieved. In studying what happens I notice it updates all parameters, but then the plug-in reloads the patch from its previous state, half a second later, as it is sending those preset previous/next commands as well.

So you have to decide which feature you want there. Preset surfing over MIDI, vs parity at the double-push of a button.

CC#6, for some reason, doesn’t work on my Arturia plugins. This is the default mapping for User 3 knob on the SFC-5. So I used the handy web-MIDI based editor for the SFC-5 to change that CC assignment.

It would be nice if there was a way to organize presets in the plugin to filter out the ones that use the Prophet VS synthesis. When preset surfing, you bump into a LOT of VS presets.
I can’t seem to find a way around that. The closest solution I’ve found can use the “vintage factory” characteristic/style tag, which at least puts some 50 P5 presets before 100 VS presets (alphabetical). There are also exclusively 28 P5 presets in the “analog” style tag, and another 13 P5-only in the “70s” tag.
You could manually go through and make a “playlist” of the P5-only presets from the 650+ preset factory library.

Arturia OB-Xa V

I’ve mapped the OSC, filter, envelope, detune/unison sections mostly in a complete fashion.
LFO section less so, due to the various waveform types on a single controller.
You can split the 2 mod sections of the plugin with either the MOD+WheelMOD sections on the SFC-5. or use User knobs. This is a plugin you have to customize to your own needs. Some stuff is going to get left out, but you can decide what that stuff is. The important stuff is all easy to map.

The 4 Pole button on the filter would an ideal parameter for “User 4” button on the controller, if you’re not using those for preset previous/next.

Again, I think this is ideal for preset surfing and using the User knobs for macros, while still having the OSC/Filter/Env sections all in tact.


Overall experience.

The best experience of the three is with Repro-5. The combination of great sound from the plug-in and the reliability of the parity function just make the plugin feel like a hardware instrument. I use my Pro 2 as a keybed, with SFC-5 VESA-clamp mounted above it, and the experience is visceral.
The top notch build quality really sells it here.

It’s on the opposite end of the spectrum that using a plugin with an Arturia or NI controller feels like. The experience feels like using a hardware module.

The viability of this solution was heavily influenced by my recent acquisition of the DTronics DT-800 programmer (with metalwork done by the same folks at Grawart in Poland), and realization that all those old Roland PG programmers from the 80s are really just the same thing as the SFC series of controllers. It’s all MIDI. Some send simple CC, some send SysEx, and some send both. But it’s all MIDI. The knobs on top of my Pro 2 are just sending MIDI as well.

I feel like it’s saved me from buying a Rev2, and even pining for a Prophet 6. A nice piece to the puzzle overall, if you work in a DAW/Hybrid environment and have a decently spec’d computer. The full price of $280 is certainly worth it. The sale enticed me, but honestly I should have bought this long ago.

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thanks for this and very well put I might add, I’m looking to make a little rig specific to repro in the future with an extra deluxe controller/tablet/and something like the sfc looks like the best way to go

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Found a great stand for the SFC5v2

Just ask for it with longer, 10” wide wooden cross braces. Very stable, and since the knobs are so tall it makes reading the knob texts real nice.

It raises it a little in front too, so tucking a small 32 or 37 key mini keyboard in front of it works well.

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Is there a link to this? Thanx

The link changes due to Reverb as the store front, so just go here and click on “Strymon Stands”

https://www.3dwaves.net/products

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I’m probably going to be buying a new laptop soon for work and dedicating the old one to basic studio duties. Are people still giddy over the SFC-5 V2? U-he Repro is easily my most used soft synth.

How much do I have to rely on the computer and mouse? Also, anyone using SoundForces Repro-1 controller? I probably wouldn’t invest in both. Anyone trying to use one or the other for both Repro-1 and Repro-5? I mean, clearly they are different enough to warrant their own dedicated controller but I am curious. I lean on mono synths far more than poly whether hardware or software.

You’ll still have to use a mouse to do things the knobs and switchss can’t.

But if you’re used to using the software already, an SFC will make exploring that software more fun.

I’d go with the SFC-1 if you’re looking at an either:or.
Easier to adapt that to Repro-5 than adapting the SFC-5 to Repro 1, though I manage fine.

The honeymoon keeps going. It’s prevented me from buying a Take 5.

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I very much appreciate the response–if I ever bought a top-shelf analog poly it would be one of the Prophet remakes. I’ll have a close look at the SFC-1.

Fell back in love with this thing recently.

I think the thing that really makes it work is taking the time to make some patches in Repro-5 that have thoughtful mod routings in the 2 slot matrix, assigned to user 1 and user 2 pots on the SFC-5. Also important is remembering that Repro-5’s “tweaks” page (under the hood parameters like filter envelope negative switch, wheel mod s&h) are also midi routable. Thanks to this you can really push it beyond Prophet 5 hardware emulation and perhaps even more toward Prophet 6 territory.

Save these patches as jumping off points and start to develop that muscle memory.

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Have you tried using the DT800 with PG8X by any chance?

No

I’ve just bought this and love it,I use it with Arturia prophet5 V and the xml file and it’s all nice and slick however normally in ableton when I want to map a controller to another synth say Serum I’ll map my most used parameters to it using the configuration button and then ‘save as default, then everyone I open an instance of Serum my mappings are there and correspond as they should.
The SFC-5 v2 doesn’t seem to be detected when I do this so I can’t use the configuration button like I do with all my other controllers so it’s pre mapped when I open up another instance.
If anyone has any experience using the sfc5 with ableton live suite I’d love to hear how they do it.
These plugins have midi learn and the sfc can map doing it that way but then when I change a preset you have to re map which is a massive pita

Any help would be greatly appreciated

I don’t use Serum, but would creating a custom user control surface config work?

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You probably already know about this, but just in case you don’t:
https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/articles/206240184-Creating-your-own-Control-Surface-script

The advantage would be that it auto maps to any device, but the disadvantage is it would need to be highlighted and third party apps would require selecting parameters under ‘Configure’

No I didn’t know any of this to be honest so thanks I’ll get stuck into it.
For curiosity what other plugins other than the prophet5 type plugins that it is intended to be used with do you use then ? and how do you go about mapping stuff so when it loads the mappings are there in whatever plugin you use with it ?
Thanks mate

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It can be used with anything since the knobs are all CC messages. When you create a custom control in Ableton, you can set the CCs however you want. For example, you could use the four envelope knobs to control the first four parameters of any device that’s highlighted (including effect devices etc). I recommend creating macros since that’s easier to tell what exactly what is controlled.

Do you happen to remember what you were using to mount the SFC-5 above the Pro-5 in the picture above? i.e. before you found the 3DWaves stand? It looks perfect for my setup.

It was a universal vesa adapter, attached to a vesa mount arm

https://a.co/d/3pqt1DZ

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Thank you! I’m noticing now in the picture that it looks like it’s floating in midair! :flying_saucer:

But I’m assuming the arm goes behind that curtain and clamps to the back of the desk or the windowsill or something…