Software type Octatrack?

GovernorSilver · 2013-12-04T18:13:07.000Z

I picked up Lemur on sale, but admittedly haven’t used it much. I see there are at least two Lemur templates for Octatrack:

This one posted to the old forum:
http://elektron-users.com/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=28&func=view&catid=9&id=187041

This one posted by KRAFTF from the old forum to the Liine site:
http://liine.net/en/community/user-library/view/291/

A Lemur template on iPad might improve the Octatrack UI experience for some people.

As for me, I bought Ableton Live when they were giving away Max For Live for free with purchase of Live Suite. I still use it as a multi-track recorder on my computer. However, the looping and sample mangling stuff I was going to do on Live, I now do on Octatrack. My own struggles learning how to use my Octatrack have been documented, but I now get around on the Octatrack much faster than I would have with software. For band rehearsals and shows, it is much more convenient to set up my rig with the Octatrack than a laptop plus hardware controllers. Also, the headphone output on my Macbook Pro stopped working a couple of months ago - yet another reminder of the short lifespan of laptops in comparison to dedicated hardware like the Octatrack.

At present, I just use the sequencer to play back samples and slices - nothing fancy, so the OT meets my needs on that front.

GovernorSilver · 2013-12-04T18:34:38.000Z

This thoughtful and civil discussion between these two veteran looping musicians influenced my decision to get an Octatrack instead of sticking with Live:

http://www.loopers-delight.com/LDarchive/201208/msg00407.html

The point was raised somewhere in the discussion that some things that can be quickly done on the Octatrack may take a lot more time to figure out and implement in software like Live.

neilbaldwin · 2013-12-04T19:19:05.000Z

""gbravetti"":

[quote=“Dataline”][quote=“gbravetti”]Ableton Live + Max + Push Controller is the closer you can get

Which is pretty far …[/quote]
Just by curiosity, name one thing non related to hardware, that is possible to achieve on the OT and is not possible to achieve with Ableton Live + Max + Push.

Please note that I’m not talking about if it is easy or not, I’m talking about if it is possible or not.[/quote]
Ableton + Max + Push combo is almost limitless. There are a million ways to mange audio with it and so many Max devices (granulators etc.) that the OT could never compete. The Push controller goes a long way to help in terms of immediacy and ergonomics. The last update even give you parameter locks in the step sequencer (as well as being able to record regular automation). Plus you have a much more powerful sequencer (or throw in something like Numerology for even more power/generative/weirdness).
I’d agree that the OT is more portable and more self-contained but on flexibility and features it can’t compete with Live. There’s not a single thing the OT can do that you can’t do with Live and you’d still only be scratching the surface of what Live can do.
It’s a silly argument - they’re like two different animals.
And for the record I have both and love them both.

gbravetti · 2013-12-04T19:39:38.000Z

""neilbaldwin"":

[quote=“gbravetti”][quote=“Dataline”][quote=“gbravetti”]Ableton Live + Max + Push Controller is the closer you can get

Which is pretty far …[/quote]
Just by curiosity, name one thing non related to hardware, that is possible to achieve on the OT and is not possible to achieve with Ableton Live + Max + Push.

Please note that I’m not talking about if it is easy or not, I’m talking about if it is possible or not.[/quote]
Ableton + Max + Push combo is almost limitless. There are a million ways to mange audio with it and so many Max devices (granulators etc.) that the OT could never compete. The Push controller goes a long way to help in terms of immediacy and ergonomics. The last update even give you parameter locks in the step sequencer (as well as being able to record regular automation). Plus you have a much more powerful sequencer (or throw in something like Numerology for even more power/generative/weirdness).
I’d agree that the OT is more portable and more self-contained but on flexibility and features it can’t compete with Live. There’s not a single thing the OT can do that you can’t do with Live and you’d still only be scratching the surface of what Live can do.
It’s a silly argument - they’re like two different animals.
And for the record I have both and love them both.
[/quote]
Same here.

GovernorSilver · 2013-12-04T20:47:27.000Z

Respect to those who have the time and expertise to make use of both OT and Live on a regular basis.

If I had a brand new laptop instead of a 6-year-old, I might be using Live again. But my laptop is nearing end-of-life. Mac laptops last about 6-7 years before critical hardware on the laptop starts failing and popular Windows laptop brands like Dell last about the same, maybe less. I bet the Octatrack will still be fully functional (barring horrendously buggy OS update) after 10 years of use.

neilbaldwin · 2013-12-04T21:04:27.000Z

""GovernorSilver"":

Respect to those who have the time and expertise to make use of both OT and Live on a regular basis.

If I had a brand new laptop instead of a 6-year-old, I might be using Live again. But my laptop is nearing end-of-life. Mac laptops last about 6-7 years before critical hardware on the laptop starts failing and popular Windows laptop brands like Dell last about the same, maybe less. I bet the Octatrack will still be fully functional (barring horrendously buggy OS update) after 10 years of use.

"I bet the Octatrack will still be fully functional (barring horrendously buggy OS update) after 10 years of use."

That’s a bit contentious. I can give you two reasons that I might not subscribe to that view. They both end with my OT going back to Elektron for crossfader trouble. Repaired under warranty of course but that warranty, whilst generous, certainly doesn’t last 10 years.

guga · 2013-12-04T21:14:00.000Z

""GovernorSilver"":

Respect to those who have the time and expertise to make use of both OT and Live on a regular basis.

If I had a brand new laptop instead of a 6-year-old, I might be using Live again. But my laptop is nearing end-of-life. Mac laptops last about 6-7 years before critical hardware on the laptop starts failing and popular Windows laptop brands like Dell last about the same, maybe less. I bet the Octatrack will still be fully functional (barring horrendously buggy OS update) after 10 years of use.

exactly…with software you will always have to be up-to-date in terms of the hardware running it especially for those apps which require a lot of processing power, whereas, with a piece of hardware that is made specifically for a task, well, you know it’ll be fine for a looong time (even though, the software in this case plays its own role)
i guess this could start the usual debate on whether software is better than hardware… analog is better than digital… in the end what counts is the end result (and what you like most)

neilbaldwin · 2013-12-04T21:20:03.000Z

""guga"":

[quote=“GovernorSilver”]Respect to those who have the time and expertise to make use of both OT and Live on a regular basis.

If I had a brand new laptop instead of a 6-year-old, I might be using Live again. But my laptop is nearing end-of-life. Mac laptops last about 6-7 years before critical hardware on the laptop starts failing and popular Windows laptop brands like Dell last about the same, maybe less. I bet the Octatrack will still be fully functional (barring horrendously buggy OS update) after 10 years of use.

exactly…with software you will always have to be up-to-date in terms of the hardware running it especially for those apps which require a lot of processing power, whereas, with a piece of hardware that is made specifically for a task, well, you know it’ll be fine for a looong time (even though, the software in this case plays its own role)
i guess this could start the usual debate on whether software is better than hardware… analog is better than digital… in the end what counts is the end result (and what you like most)[/quote]

Computer Vs Octatrack?

One is a piece of hardware controlled by a CPU with RAM, storage and a software operating system.

The other one is a computer.

guga · 2013-12-04T21:26:13.000Z

GovernorSilver · 2013-12-04T21:49:17.000Z

""neilbaldwin"":

[quote=“guga”][quote=“GovernorSilver”]Respect to those who have the time and expertise to make use of both OT and Live on a regular basis.

If I had a brand new laptop instead of a 6-year-old, I might be using Live again. But my laptop is nearing end-of-life. Mac laptops last about 6-7 years before critical hardware on the laptop starts failing and popular Windows laptop brands like Dell last about the same, maybe less. I bet the Octatrack will still be fully functional (barring horrendously buggy OS update) after 10 years of use.

exactly…with software you will always have to be up-to-date in terms of the hardware running it especially for those apps which require a lot of processing power, whereas, with a piece of hardware that is made specifically for a task, well, you know it’ll be fine for a looong time (even though, the software in this case plays its own role)
i guess this could start the usual debate on whether software is better than hardware… analog is better than digital… in the end what counts is the end result (and what you like most)[/quote]

Computer Vs Octatrack?

One is a piece of hardware controlled by a CPU with RAM, storage and a software operating system.

The other one is a computer.

[/quote]

HA!

Please everyone, don’t misunderstand me. If you read my post carefully, you’d see I expressed support for people who use both software and Octatrack to make music.

But the reality is, shit will go bad on your computer faster than it will on dedicated hardware. Apple store wanted to charge me $300 to fix the headphone out problem!

Apple, Dell, and other computer makers do not design their machines for years or even decades of continuous use. You’re lucky to get 7 years of use out of your computer. If you are in the habit of replacing your computer every 2 years, you might not notice this. I bought my iPad this year. Let’s see if my iPad still works 5 years from now… I’m enjoying making music on it now, but I’d be a fool to get all emotional and not think about this reality. From my POV, if you made at least 5 years worth of satisfying music on your computer during that computer’s 6-8 year lifespan, then it’s totally worth the price you paid for that computer, even if you have to get another one at your computer’s “end of life”.

I did NOT made an argument against incorporating Live or whatever into your rig - I’m just saying you need to think about that if you’re contemplating ditching hardware for software or even just adding a software component to your hardware rig. Just another variable to figure into what you should expect to pay, regarding price of admission…That’s why some software-heavy musos have a backup laptop or tablet…

darenager · 2013-12-04T23:23:31.000Z

OT vs Ableton - Different but the same, horses for courses, use either, use both use neither.

Octatrack is more

Ableton is like

foodprocess.jpg715×737 145 KB

Oh, and MPC is

kidknife.jpg1500×1500 44.8 KB

Just kidding, big MPC fan here.

KrisM · 2013-12-04T23:55:37.000Z

MPC:

TMNT87.jpg720×576 101 KB

Ableton Live:

Nick_teenage_mutant_ninja_turtles_by_supahboy_d5gdbp5.jpg800×871 107 KB

Octatrack:

tmnt_idw_ashcan.jpg331×512 81.6 KB

I could rearrange the associations a lot, too, but the meaning is clear all the same: they all get the job done, and love being a turtle.

bandersong · 2013-12-05T17:04:33.000Z

Ableton Live will get you where you need to go, with or without a controller.

Ableton Live, is for all intents and purposes many times more powerful than the OT. I mean really, it is basically limitless especially now with a modular like interface built right in (MAX).

Ableton is however, extremely scientific compared to the OT.

I literally have happy accidents every time I work with the OT because its a machine for exploration rather than scientific workflow and outputting masses of music. Never really had that happen with Ableton and plugins…

What I mean by all this, is that on paper any software choice will destroy the OT. It really is more about the in the moment usage of the machine that will tell you the true differences. In that sense, no piece of software will ever be enough. Even touch interfaces like SAMPLR (while very good) feel lacking, although they are getting closer

Dataline · 2013-12-05T18:35:31.000Z

""KrisM"":

MPC:

TMNT87.jpg720×576 101 KB

Ableton Live:

Nick_teenage_mutant_ninja_turtles_by_supahboy_d5gdbp5.jpg800×871 107 KB

Octatrack:

tmnt_idw_ashcan.jpg331×512 81.6 KB

I could rearrange the associations a lot, too, but the meaning is clear all the same: they all get the job done, and love being a turtle.

This is spot on

GovernorSilver · 2013-12-05T18:56:44.000Z

""darenager"":

OT vs Ableton - Different but the same, horses for courses, use either, use both use neither.

Octatrack is more

sword.jpg640×425 53.4 KB

Ableton is like

foodprocess.jpg715×737 145 KB

Oh, and MPC is

kidknife.jpg1500×1500 44.8 KB

Just kidding, big MPC fan here.

Sums it up for me, with the exception of MPC - only because I’ve never owned an MPC.

poonti · 2013-12-05T19:16:26.000Z

I just pulled some random images from http://www.randomimage.us for the hell of it…

Octatrack is more

Ableton is like

Oh, and MPC is

Lemajik · 2013-12-05T20:04:40.000Z

No one mentioned Lucifer devine machine released in 2004 which I think is the only one to be a bit something like OT but different heheh. Used with jazzmutant lemur or kaosspad3 or monome via osc may give you the feeling of hardware but still… OT is OT. There is no comparison btw OT and a computer daw or plugin…
Of course it depends on your experience and what type of workow you like.
I’m happy that I had this expirience.

Stand proud behind the OT

Love the associations heh

bandersong · 2013-12-05T20:08:41.000Z

""poonti"":

I just pulled some random images from http://www.randomimage.us for the hell of it…

Octatrack is more

img1.jpg600×400 47.6 KB

Ableton is like

img2.jpg220×450 24.1 KB

Oh, and MPC is

3.jpg243×449 34.6 KB

Honestly, this is hilarious and I don’t even know why.

orangehexagon · 2013-12-05T20:15:22.000Z

If you didnt like the workflow of the OT, you will hate the workflow using max for live

joshEjosh · 2013-12-05T20:36:59.000Z

""bandersong"":

Ableton Live will get you where you need to go, with or without a controller.

Ableton Live, is for all intents and purposes many times more powerful than the OT. I mean really, it is basically limitless especially now with a modular like interface built right in (MAX).

Ableton is however, extremely scientific compared to the OT.

I literally have happy accidents every time I work with the OT because its a machine for exploration rather than scientific workflow and outputting masses of music. Never really had that happen with Ableton and plugins…

What I mean by all this, is that on paper any software choice will destroy the OT. It really is more about the in the moment usage of the machine that will tell you the true differences. In that sense, no piece of software will ever be enough. Even touch interfaces like SAMPLR (while very good) feel lacking, although they are getting closer

I think the standalone nature of the Elektron boxes is one of the things that contributes to this. There is something to be said for a box that does not let you browse the web, read email, or play games. Agreed about the “scientific” nature of Ableton Live. I call that “recording engineer” stuff. With the OT, I am not tempted to get into “recording engineer” mode, putting endless plugins and devices on tracks, arranging complex chaining. With the OT I’m in “creative sample mangler” mode all the time.

Limitations can unlock creative potential sometimes.