Slow PAD sounds, what timings do you use?

occultron · 2022-10-06T05:34:26.080Z

I’m having a surprisingly difficult time getting good, slow pad sounds out of digitone because the amp envelope attack + decay/release timings feel very weird. Anyone else experience this?

Especially the attack time is very hard to set so that there’s a smooth ramp up to full volume, it feels like it goes to 90% almost instantly and then depending on the attack time the last 10% can take ages and ages…

Would love to hear if someone has managed to make some good, slowly rising sounds!

occultron · 2022-10-06T05:47:15.753Z

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Here’s something to illustrate. Even with full attack length of 127, a very high volume level of -30db is reached already at less than 2 seconds, when the entirety of the attack time is thirty seconds. (Remember that the waveform is log scale, so the last/highest 6db of volume takes up 50% of the view.)

To me this curve shape for attack time just doesn’t make sense for pad sounds…

comradecry · 2022-10-06T06:17:57.347Z

i think you are entirely correct.
amp envelope on DN is a bit weird, especially big values.
i observe same behaviour: at max attack, sound gets to medium volume within 2 seconds, and then its a slow crawl to peak. which is a shame.

i can get desired attack by sacraficing LFO, but those are most valuable in sounds that ring out longest.

i dont know elektron will even consider changes to sound engine this late into device life, but i really hope so.

Please create a ticket for the support team, i will do the same.
And to anyone who has DN and wants slow pad sounds, please make one too!

occultron · 2022-10-06T06:46:15.616Z

Would you mind sharing what your favorite LFO settings are for slow pads? Do you directly modulate amp volume or something else?

occultron · 2022-10-06T06:50:10.704Z

BTW I don’t think it’d be a huge change to the sound engine, the second AMP page has many empty paramater spots and one could easily be “attack curve shape” with 3-4 different types of curves. This shouldn’t be very difficult to implement in terms of programming / code.
I think this is just an issue that maybe players who mostly play presets and don’t make their own sounds don’t complain about.

Microtribe · 2022-10-06T07:28:16.545Z

I struggle with the digitone envelopes sometimes, long slow sounds being one of them.

One way round it is to sample a long sustained note, with no envelope or filter, and do the rest on the octatrack. But that’s me and my gear.

occultron · 2022-10-06T07:45:31.993Z

Yeah, it’s a shame that you need workarounds because, like, sound wise the Digitone is a PAD MONSTER, but the envelopes are really an achilles’ heel…

fffiiissshhh · 2022-10-06T07:51:33.331Z

ahhh i thought i was going crazy, good that i’m not the only one noticing this. yeah the attack behavior is super weird

comradecry · 2022-10-06T09:05:00.134Z

occultron:

Would you mind sharing what your favorite LFO settings are for slow pads? Do you directly modulate amp volume or something else?

lfoamp2090×1107 361 KB

Yep. Combine these settings with maximum attack in the amp page.
To my ear result sounds as maximum attack should without any LFO.

aliberty · 2022-10-06T21:10:36.715Z

Hi @occultron
Not entirely sure wether this will be of help to you, but additionally to the amp envelope, you got the envelopes on the syn2 page. If you add attack (127), your pad may build up over 8 bars.

Screenshot 2022-10-06 at 23.09.53803×386 7.71 KB

Noumenaut · 2022-10-06T22:42:13.652Z

There is also the filter envelope which has a delay phase. This can be used to temper the attack phase on the amp envelope.
A closed filter with long attack and a bit of a delay to compensate for the amp’s speedier than desired attack?
I haven’t played around with it enough to see if it can get results as smooth as what you are after, but it is another strategy that could save an LFO to do other things.

comradecry · 2022-10-07T05:28:30.967Z

aliberty:

envelopes on the syn2 page

Noumenaut:

filter envelope

both of these suggestion will work with simple pad sounds.
more complex ones will break rather fast. fm pads be sensative.

song mode calls for a revised version of amp curves. its so easy to use notes that last multiple patterns now.

dee · 2022-10-07T07:02:51.481Z

Same… I find the filter envelope difficult to work with. Especially on the Attack times.
I can get there eventually but not entirely happy with the journey to get there.