(single) sample v sample chains

danlukas · 2014-07-13T22:48:31.000Z

/preamble
coming from software, i’m learning samplers in an inverted way, the limitations of hardware i only really understand from a distance. i think i’m missing some fundamental ideas about working with samplers

/question1
in situations where samples make sense in sets is there any reason to not make sample chains?

/question2
what specific situations is a sample chain the wrong or prohibitive idea. is it simply a matter of sample length and disk space?

/question3
any other general comments or important tangents related to this conversation.

the_dreammer · 2014-07-13T23:02:17.000Z

""danlukas"":

/preamble
coming from software, i’m learning samplers in an inverted way, the limitations of hardware i only really understand from a distance. i think i’m missing some fundamental ideas about working with samplers

/question1
in situations where samples make sense in sets is there any reason to not make sample chains?

/question2
what specific situations is a sample chain the wrong or prohibitive idea. is it simply a matter of sample length and disk space?

/question3
any other general comments or important tangents related to this conversation.

Answer1: I have been playing with huge samples, that contain multiple loops…
this because i am playing with ideas about live usage and some trickery.
one of the problems is… if i slice a giant sample into multiple loops.
I cant reslice those easy… and i cant do sample-start-offset tricks with it.
that means i have to sample the sample i am playing in a recorder… and slice it their
or do start-sample-offset tricks on that one… so i would say:
if i want to create loops, it can be less fun to have giant samples that slice into loops.

Answer2: see answer1: you can do other tricks on single-samples that are impossible after sliceing it the first time. … The other thing is… Sometimes those things i create in a daw… dont translate well into a live-performance… so i fix that with single samples… just pick a nice sound and play with it… to cumbursome to pick a slice out of a new sample… cant find one… choose new sample… scan all slices again…bla

answer3: I am sure there is more… but i dont want to end up typing a long essay on it today

danlukas · 2014-07-14T00:03:29.000Z

""the_dreammer"":

answer3: I am sure there is more… but i dont want to end up typing a long essay on it today

i think i generally understand. however, is there any example/tutorial showing a technique that is unavailable in the context of slice/sample chain?

oldgearguy · 2014-07-14T14:06:12.000Z

""danlukas"":

[quote=“the_dreammer”]answer3: I am sure there is more… but i dont want to end up typing a long essay on it today

i think i generally understand. however, is there any example/tutorial showing a technique that is unavailable in the context of slice/sample chain? [/quote]
It’s not so much a different technique, – it’s more a different result.
For example, if you have a 128 second sample and you slice it by 64, each sample is 2 seconds long. If you have a 32 second sample, each slice is 0.5 seconds long. Looping a 2 second slice sounds way different than looping a 0.5 second slice.

The other thing is that sample start and length are limited to 128 values, so the longer the sample, the less control you have over the precise start/end/loop points.

You can get some amazing textures by setting start to 0, length to 4, loop on and then modulating either (both) the start and length via LFOs. You can manually play with that technique - with loop ON and a single trigger (and envelope hold set to INF), slowly sweep the length knob between 1 and about 7 and the start up and down through the sample.

You get much different results with shorter samples.

danlukas · 2014-07-14T15:23:17.000Z

""oldgearguy"":

It’s not so much a different technique, – it’s more a different result.
…
Looping a 2 second slice sounds way different than looping a 0.5 second slice.
…
sample start and length are limited to 128 values, so the longer the sample, the less control you have over the precise start/end/loop points.

…
You get much different results with shorter samples.

great response. thank you for the insight.

oldgearguy · 2014-07-14T15:42:54.000Z

[quote=““danlukas””]

oldgearguy:

It’s not so much a different technique, – it’s more a different result.
…
Looping a 2 second slice sounds way different than looping a 0.5 second slice.
…
sample start and length are limited to 128 values, so the longer the sample, the less control you have over the precise start/end/loop points.

…
You get much different results with shorter samples.

great response. thank you for the insight. [/quote]
You’re welcome. Glad to help out.

Oh, in case anyone misunderstands – in the Sample Editor you can obviously set the start/end/loop points to any sample point. The 128 position limit I was talking about is via the Playback page controls for start and length.

MDM · 2014-07-16T08:12:05.000Z

i just use sample chains for single shot sounds, like drums and blips and so on, and single cycle wave forms
the main reason for me to use sample chains would be to decrease the amount of samples/files on my card…keep things more organized.
for grooves, longer textures or samples of other things i don’t use sample chains.

chad · 2014-07-16T13:24:54.000Z

""danlukas"":

/question1
in situations where samples make sense in sets is there any reason to not make sample chains?

In the case of sample chains being collections of single shot hits it may be personal preference. Each offers different techniques for changing the currently triggered sample. You can test out how you like using Slices to change the hits vs Changing Sample Slot for ‘single’ samples.

For instance loading up sliced hihat variation sample chain then hitting Create Random Locks can offer some inspiring directions. Assigning a scene to morph Slice number is also great.

On the other side sometimes using single samples and rotating thru Sample Slot on trigs may be the quickest way to lay down an idea.

lindefelt · 2014-07-16T22:14:13.000Z

This is more a PRO than a CON, but you can overcome some of the OT’s pitch limitation by arranging chromatic 64-slice sample chains, slicing them ITB and using as chromatic sample sets. This has been mentioned elsewhere, but worth mentioning again.

poonti · 2014-07-16T22:25:56.000Z

That’s a lot of trouble for doing something that any of my synths can already do on non-sampled voices, and if I really wanted to sample and playback chipmunk samples chromatically (or some other sound), I could use my OP-1 instead. I use slices mostly to break up a beat and play it back differently.