I started on the MPC One and later upgraded/switched to the MPC Live 2. Built-in battery and portability are important to me. While the Live 2 is bulkier, it’s cable free. I can do jams like this out in the wild, which in itself is pretty wild. It can be done on the Push 3 Standalone too with headphones, of course. Or the MPC One with headphones and a battery pack and a 20V Birdcord PD cable. But I just value being completely untethered so my preference is the Live 2.
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If you want to make live jam shows Polyend play is absolutely awesome for that. And if you want make songs, tracker can replace a lot of gear. At least for me. I’m not a Polyend fanboy, is just that I’ve make a lot of songs only with tracker and now I have Play+ and it’s a very very powerful machine.
In fact, Play is the first machine that I have that lets you make very easy transitions. The sequencer is stellar. It’s not a perfect machine but you can do a live show with it, sure.
Ive been preparing a live gig with 4 machines and at the end it’s too much combo for me. I’m a big fan of one or two machines. I’ve discovered midi mode in the SP404mk2 and is a whole new world.
The limited polyend capacity with the huge sample capacity of the 404 and I don’t need anything more.
I waver a lot on this one. When I got the Push 3 last year I realised that in principle it could replace every piece of gear other than DAWs/software and maybe a bit of modular and I’ve been mulling it over ever since. And now the Moog Muse has me thinking (again) about selling off most current sound-making equipment and consolidating in a single piece. I nearly did this when the Moog One first launched and I still regret it a little bit that I didn’t.
But I probably won’t do this. There are two ways of looking at it - on the one hand, becoming totally fluent on a single instrument (and in this I’m including DAWs, samplers, etc.) and pushing its limits is where a lot of creativity happens. On the other, there’s picking the right tool for the job. Not all synths/DAWs/samplers work in the same way - or have the same affordances - so inevitably some lead in different directions and excel at different parts of the process.
I’ve got a bunch of different DAWs I use regularly - if I want to sit down and compose a coherent piece of music from start to finish, it’s Logic every time. But only using Logic sometimes the results tend to be a bit bland and linear. For wild experimentation, it’s Bitwig, but I often don’t end up with anything resembling a coherent piece of music. For jamming together ideas, it’s Ableton, but I often end up with an interesting loop but find it hard to translate that to a linear structure. For intricate pattern creation / sample slicing, it’s Renoise, but again it often ends up with a nice loop that’s hard to break out of.
Similar with samplers, I have a bunch that have very different strengths, few synths, drum machines and a bit of modular.
There’s a bandwidth issue in terms of learning all this individual gear to the point where I’m wondering would it be better to just have one or two pieces. Where I think I’m landing - even though the temptation is strong to do a clear out - is to treat Logic as the focal point where everything comes together in terms of “finished” compositions, and just enjoy using everything else according to its strengths and the tasks it performs well.
I started taking this approach earlier this year - rather than sitting down every time and trying to compose a piece like I used to, mostly I’m just generating ideas, jams, samples, chops and saving them to folders to be picked through and arranged in Logic. It’s working pretty well for me.
I do wonder whether I’d have a lot more music out there if I’d managed to stick with one DAW and not go down consumerist the rabbit hole of buying gear thinking that would aid rather than hinder creativity. Ultimately, creativity comes from within, whether you’re banging two sticks together or have a state of the art studio.
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I could probably do 95% of what I want in Koala, the other 5% with a piano and guitar—sampled into Koala.
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Excellent thread.
I’m constantly considering and chasing this idea…
I, too, thought Push 3 would be “one composition machine to rule them all”,
I can’t explain it, but I’m just not able to stay completely focused with Ableton 12 and Push 3.
Ableton is a vast forest and it’s easy (for me) to get lost. It’s not a fault of the program, but I think a fault of endless possibilities and different workflows inside the program.
I will always keep a modular set up, but I just consider that different paint and brushes, while the main composition tool, be it an MPC, Push, etc would be the canvas on which to paint on.
Here is my new goal:
an MPC to compose tracks
my Modular to sequence from the mpc (and using modular sequencers) to sample and record into the MPC.
Possibly one hardware polysynth
Ableton for arrangement and mixing.
This may seem like a lot of kit still (and it sort of is), but It’s much less than I’ve had in the past and I will give it a shot. Wish me luck, and to the OP, I wish you luck in the journey on staying focused to be able to create at will.
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I agree with this… and I’d say the same thing goes for Maschine (and Plus).
I like working in Ableton’s session mode, but I’m not a big fan of Push as an extension of it, I prefer using the Novation Launch Pad Pro.
As @djst mentioned, I do like Maschine Plus, particularly for its workflow approach, it wins that battle for me with the MPC.
But when it comes to onboard sounds, the MPC wins that…. I’d love to have a combination of the Maschine Plus with the Akai synth plugins.
So, that’s why I like to run my Maschine Plus in controller mode and access Akai VST’s (plus a whole host of other options). The experience is the same as standalone, I just have the laptop tucked away.
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For me actually sitting down with Ableton 12 and learning it properly, next too all the midi generative devices has really help alleviate myself buying new stuff. I’m actually focused on writing songs instead of just iterative loops. Having VSTs means less pain in the ass syncing stuff, but its definitely more fun to have a hardware synth with lots of knobs to play with in sound design.
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I think that’s a pretty sensible approach to be fair.
As you say Logic is a great place to pull ideas from various places into and in that context, perhaps having a few sound sources for that I can totally see Logic as the ideal home for that. You could have some ideas going on the iPad app even, alongside any of your other gear and stitch it all together in Logic itself. There’s a simplicity to how it works with audio and finishing/mixing a song, certainly over Ableton. Where Ableton is interesting to me is that it’s both the place to experiment and to finish, without leaving a single environment.
With other gear on hand, Ableton sometimes feels like an opportunity missed at times (with all its fancy MIDI tools etc.) If I’m bringing audio in from elsewhere, sure it’s nice to warp and develop it in the DAW, but it’d be great to take advantage of the MIDI tools and generators that make Ableton unique. In fairness though that might not hold water for Push standalone, because from what I hear some of this functionality isn’t actually accessible on Push, which would mean even using it standalone would miss out on those. And I think this is probably why some folks end up saying “eh, I’ll just use the laptop.”
Either way, and to your point, choosing one of these platforms (in theory) should start the process of reducing the amount of bandwidth needed to get along with one particular machine.
Good luck to you too! Sounds like you’re on a similar road and thanks for the kind words about the topic. I thought it was worth exploring.
I now have three different streamlined set-ups.
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Portable: the M8
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Living Room: Roland digital piano with OP-1f connected and OP-Z for sequencing.
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Studio: Digitakt II and Hydrasynth Explorer connected through an 8x8 Steinberg interface (controled by an iPad as a mixer) for audio and mioXM for midi. I also connect audio from another motu M2 interface with my mac on the other end. Also have the Launchpad Pro MK3 for DAW control, playing, sequencing, and sometimes the M8 joins the party, when I offload portable creations. Very versitile set-up, everything is slimmed down, can be used solo, all at once, or in any other combination. Settings can be changed on the fly with a few taps.
I’m very satisfied with this, it doesn’t feel cluttered and I have a set-up ready for any occasion.
(Note that before I had so many things I started looking for space on the desk - very bad)
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As long as you’re ok using the computer to set up anything more complicated than basic tracks and transfer projects back and forth, Push 3 is incredible. If that sounds like a pain, look elsewhere.
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I get that instrument feel 100% from Push 3, whether in standalone or controller. Or more to the point instruments, depending on how I have it configured it can be a loop station for guitar and voice, a polysynth with weird Soma Cosmos style effects, a “groove box” with multiple sequencing options and voices, with max devices it’s infinitely flexible while at the same time (for me) having a comfortable and familiar interface.
If it was going to be just one piece, for me this would be it. But I kinda prefer not to try using it to compose full tracks from start to finish, especially in standalone. I guess this goes back to the instrument thing. A lot of why Logic has been emerging as my One DAW to Rule Them All is having the iPad version - my plan for my holidays is to bring the Push, SP404MKII and iPad - as well as guitar and SM57 - and use the iPad primarily as a recorder for everything else. Push can in principle do all of this in itself, but somehow that part of the process doesn’t really click for me.
I also love MPCs but I really see them as a single purpose chop sample, sequence sample, repeat box, still an instrument to me but more so a drum box for finger drumming and jamming chops. For a long time some people were complaining about the new line being too “DAW-like” but I only use them in that very limited way so it was never something that I got. Of course as has been discussed at length elsewhere they’re moving in a direction that will default to making “DAW-like/lite” pretty much impossible to avoid, which I’ve got mixed feelings at best about, but we’ll see how that goes once the beta lands.
Anyway, not meaning to make this a mega-post, but another first principles point I’ve been thinking about since my last post is creativity as virtuosity vs. creativity as expression. I play guitar but stopped for a long time when my teacher started really pushing me towards stuff like Joe Satriani and Steve Vai as what all players should be aiming for. For sure, they were at the outer reaches of what the instrument can do, but the music never moved me.
So I guess learning a particular piece inside out is only one creative avenue. Most of the time, I think it’s actually enough to just be able to make it do what you want it to do more or less, or work with it to create things you wouldn’t necessarily have expected. Bringing intention and knowing how to listen and recognise what speaks to you are probably more important. And of course listening to lots of different music and sounds every do to provide inspiration and ideas to shamelessly … borrow.
So in terms of effective study/learning/practice - aside from just sitting down and doing - I feel like transferable stuff like music theory even in very basic form, synthesis and sampling basics can fairly get you to a point where you’re fluent enough with most pieces of gear to get going with them very quickly.
For me, I think “workflow” should probably come from the artist deciding how to use the tools in their process, rather than having the tools largely dictate the process. But I do recognise that a lot of great art is based on finding, bending and breaking the limits of the tools - obviously there’s no “right” way here.
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I’m throwing in another vote for “less is more”.
For me, the most fun and rewarding experiences are when I make music with one single instrument (at a time). I’ve made lots of stuff and played in bands with cluttered setups and made it work, but everything just feels better, more focused, and more rewarding when I keep it as simple and as compact as possible.
So far, DTII is the closest to having a “one ring to rule them all” kind of thing for me. I sample all kinds of stuff into it, arrange, mix, resample, rearrange, remix, etc., 16 stereo tracks are more than enough for me, as is the RAM and +drive. I think I would be fine for quite a while, if I only had a DTII.
However, it’s downsides (lack of polyphony, no built-in mic, (relatively) few FX, (relatively) limited sample length) are perfectly balanced when combined with an op-1f. They work great together with a single USB cable for sync, midi, and audio. So I mostly just take stuff I recorded (guitar, synths, field recordings with the built-in mic) onto the op-1f tapes and sample it into the DTII to arrange songs with. I usually mess around for about a year with a setup to really distill some unique sounds and vibes (unique to me at least) until I’ve got an album worth of material for a release. Very simple and for the music I make, there is nothing I feel I couldn’t achieve with just these two instruments and a guitar.
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I tried the Push 3 + MachBook M1 Pro combo as the only things I would need. Did not enjoy the music making process.
MPC Live II is my favorite stand alone take anywhere box, but I don’t like the workflow. I can use it, but it is not preferred. I have high hopes in OS 3.
Bought a Maschine + stand alone which I thought would be a great system since I have Komplete Ultimate. I still don’t understand why NI doesn’t release Maschine + specific packs with streamlined effects to lighten the load. That system felt like too much work.
Bought a Syntakt early on. It took a year for me to warm up to box and figure out how to take some of the edge off of the sounds. It is now my favorite box and right now I am sitting on two of them, black and silver. But I also come to realize that it needs a partner for my type of music.
Syntakt + MPC works great for me.
Syntakt + Digitakt II + MC101 being sequenced by the Digitakt works well.
Will soon be trying Syntakt + Digitakt II + A4mkii.
My conclusion, I see no need to go to a single box. I’m mostly content with 2, happiest with three. Why fight it. I can still start on the Syntakt or Live II when starting a project, then expand when needed.
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My thinking was that in SA mode, it would be cool to sketch basic melodic & song ideas but away from the desk, while also being able to transfer them back and more or less carry on where I left off. I was thinking 4-8 tracks, you know a basic Wavetable, Drum Rack & Operator type setup, maybe messing with some samples to get something going. It’s the idea of consolidating those “noodling and ideas” workflows into something that can then be used to springboard right into Ableton itself. The trade off that inspired this thread was me thinking that I’d be losing the quirks of 3-4 individual devices to go for a unified workflow with just one.
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Can you tell me what you mean by, ‘midi mode in the SP404mk2’’?
Thanks
That’s interesting, usually you hear people say that the Maschine synths (massive, monark, poly synth etc) sound better than the synths in the MPC
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You can trigger pads from an external sequencer via Midi notes. And if you use 1 shot there’s no looping, so you can trigger long phrases in sync at the speed of the external sequencer
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Ahhhh cool. So the SP will stretch the one-shots to match the incoming BPM?
Sounds like you have a realistic set of expectations regarding Push3, then! I think that, when used this way, it’s an extremely powerful instrument and well worth considering.
If you are familiar with Ableton’s instruments and have a set of FX chains/ Ableton instrument patches/ samples you gravitate to, I think you’ll likely find you can replicate “your” voice to some extent in standalone before going back to the computer, and I love the workflow on Push 3. I’d say Push/ Ableton is much better at this than MPC, the Elektron samplers, etc because of its wide range of available tools - it’s objectively more flexible, and I personally think its FX and instruments are far higher quality than Akai’s.
That said, I never did click with Ableton’s built-in instruments and loathe them, which makes Push 3 a bit less useful for me outside of being a sample tool and FX box. I also recognize that I’m basically alone in that, and it should not be taken as a slight on Ableton or Push.
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I duct-taped a Digitakt to a Digitone and it made my life better.
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