Share you advice on composing/mixing techno HERE

The Lounge General Discussion
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So.

I’ve been producing techno (amongst other genres) professionally for almost 10 years now. There are a few names that really set the standard for me. Something i always try to achieve. I see those artists like perspectives. They motivate me to become a better producer every day. I am NOT stating that i have found some well kept secret, nor that i am a producer that matches the names i’m about to mention, but i HAVE learned a lot in the last couple of years and i’m just sharing these with you, hoping that you’ll do the same. Everybody learns, so everybody wins.

Artists like Guy J, Maceo Plex, Jon Hopkins, Robert Babicz; people with a SOUND that is incredible.

Here we go.

  1. KISS (keep it simple stupid)

I find myself producing/composing too much content most of the time. Clever producing is about killing your darlings, creating a relatively sparse sound environment in which sounds can shine and do their work. Most of the time you’ll listen to your music and go: ‘ah. don’t know. something missing’. You’ll reach for extra sounds. Extra percussion. Extra synth line. Put in some pads. That will satisfy you only temporarily, because i find that most of the time enhancing the sounds you already have, produces results that are satisfactory on the long run.

  1. Dynamic

Following 1: if i find that my composition is lacking something, nowadays i try to enhance the sounds i have, instead of creating extra parts. Stuff like adding dynamics to percussion (velocity, timing, randomness in pattern, etc) works really well. Experiment with turning stuff on and off. Try to engage a relationship with each sound. If you focus on a particular sound; with which other sound is this sound trying to communicate? Does it answer a different part? Does it create a question, to be answered by another sound? All your sounds need to be there FOR A REASON, instead of just being there.

  1. Layering

I myself am not good at this. I find it hard to do, because often i’m not sure what to layer, and how. But the truth is that A LOT of my techno heroes do this. It makes a sound more interesting and less thin. Maybe other people on this forum can expand on ways to do this, tips/tricks, etc.

  1. The mix… (uh oh)

Know that feeling? Damn it sounds great with all this brickwall compression on the master. It sounds even better when i turn it up loud. Only to find out that when you listen to it the next day and deactivate your masterbus plugins, it sounds like crap. One thing i learned from a fellow engineer: if what’s on your masterbus sounds cool, try to find out WHAT IT IS that makes it cool sounding. Then try to replicate that sound by messing with your individual sounds before reaching the master bus.

Second tip: when the mix just does not work, often your composition or arrangement is not good enough. Trying to fix things in the mix, is not the way to go. Remember: a good track with a bad mix is not that bad… a bad track with a good mix will always stay BAD.

Third tip: be sure that when you’re using softsynths, to keep track of the stereo field. Most soft synths are VERY stereo to begin with. Open up a few and there’s no more room for sounds to be. It’s a reason for me to use mostly analoge gear. Not because it sounds better per se, but because it finds it’s spot in the mix quite easily.

So, people… who are your heroes? Why does their music sound great? What tips do you have for us? Join the discussion! WOOOHOOO!!! :slight_smile:

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On the “mix” angle, I’d say stop buying into this high-pass filter everything that isnt considered bass. You see on youtube these guys teaching that this is the way to get louder tracks because you are giving alot of room to the lower frequencies.
Now consider how good the RYTM sounds. Its thick, punchy, and heavy sounding if you design your sounds well. There is a way to highpass filter in the filter section, but most of us are using the filter for something else. Yes I do lower the low end of things like hats or maybe a higher frequency sound, but I stopped rolling it off with steep cut. Instead, I use a low shelf with a little Q bump at the frequency point I’m reducing. Even though we may not hear some of that low end information, we still can feel it and it interacts with other elements. This is the same in sought after drum machines like MPC3000 and 60’s that some of our favorite classic techno and house tracks were made on. These guys werent high passing everything and slamming the mix into a Waves plugin.
So try it, you should notice that your mixes get thicker sounding and more full, as apposed to clinical and loud.

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in therms of layering … I also heared a lot of producers are doing this … especially with bassdrums. But mostly when I try it doesn´t sound as good. And I prefere more the raw sound and try to process that sound very well. Using good plugins (mostly working with UAD, but also Izotope and the Waves API bus compressor). Don´t try using the stock plugins … I mean you can use it, but they are performance optimized and not sound optimized. You will notice this if you are switch all stock plug ins in project to high quality plugins from UAD, Waves or …

I also use a lot of modulation. A chorus (Roland Dimension D for example) can do great things on chords and pads. I often use also tape emulation and some LA2 compression on the synths. To sweet out some frequencies I using mostly Pultec EQ. Give the ride a boost at 3K, Hihats at 8K or 10K. Shakers at 3K or 4K… it´s the sound of the EQ that makes the things special. Also the Pultec 3HC EQ is a simply High Cut und Low Cut EQ bit gives very special resonance at corner frequency.

When I´m doing dub techno some times I use 3 different tape delay and 2 or 3 reverbs.

There is also a big discussion about the sample rate in your DAW. For myseld I found out it´s best sounding to work in 96K (or 88.2) because all high frequency elements are sounding a way more natural and I hear l lot more details in the effects (reverb, delays…)

I send all the sounds to 2 busses. So I have drum bus with a drum bus compressor and a melody bus with some eq. Also different types of compressors will giving your different results. I really like the Neve 33096 with it´s oldschool type of saturation. Sounds totally different then SSL Bus compressor.

An advise from Robert Babics I have learned in his studio talk with Electronic Beats: on master channels: only compress 1db max. Long attack (30ms on the ssl) and shortes release ( 0,1 on the ssl)

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My thoughts on techno:

  • you need to have a low end, be it a BD or bass or sub bass
  • evolving sounds
  • a lot of effects and layering, I realised this first time when I compared my lead loops recorded from Iris 2 with single synths (like TB-3), it depends of course
  • distortion and reverb
  • simple hook
  • checking audio spectrum if there are missing spots
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+1 on the Dimension D it can add extra life to some sounds very subtly

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yeah just missing a mix knob. sometimes it´s a bit to much ^^ for me that´s the bad point about the UAD plug ins … they could add such things very easely, but they try to emulate the hardware 1:1 in any sense. I also wish the compressors had a sidechain function …

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So this is an area that I lack expertise or any experience in. I tend to work with analog/hardware which runs through the Octatrack and out into Ableton. Because of this, I’m not able to individually route the channels and mix them separately. So I try to do the best I can in the hardware before moving out into Ableton.

Any tips on how I should learn or develop a sense of mixing? I’ve just started to get into EQ8/EQing, but I don’t know what the hell I’m doing. I know I should cut rather than boost, but that’s about it.

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Try those lessons: https://pae.izotope.com

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Interesting thread.
my own approach is not to stick to rules,
take influence from anywhere that inspires you,
don’t change things for the sake of change,
allow and embrace happy accidents,
don’t listen to other artists and try to emulate them or you will only sound like a counterfeit version at best,
and don’t use the same gear as your favourite artist either,
don’t take any notice of self proclaimed experts,
master your equipment and techniques, practice, practice, practice
record everything,
experiment and have fun during composing, mixing, recording,
never stop learning,
remove the computer from the studio,
use your ears,
meditate.

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My 2 cents on this subject:

  1. “Getting it right at the source”

Broadly speaking, I would classify sound scuplting as having two approaches:

  • Capturing what’s there to begin with (and subtle corrections)

or

  • Building a CGI world / miniature diorama

When you follow the former dogma, you concentrate on using the best possible source material, capturing it as accurately as possible, and then (if needed) making only subtle corrections to it afterwards. Doing this requires a lot of experience and vision, and the equipment that produces this can take a lot of “digging”.

When you follow the latter dogma, you use any sound sources available, and then pile on a bunch of processing to give you the end result. You concentrate on adding characteristics that were not present in the signal (adding mojo, widening stereo image, shaping with IRs and generally adding texture/modulation).

I have tried the latter approach for over a decade with plugins etc but eventually realized that I am not talented enough in this dogma. So now I am following the “Capture what’s there and do no harm” line of thought and find my “mixes” are sounding alot more like what I want them to.

My friend is and excellent “CGI sculptor” (he also codes his own plugins!) and he gets results I could never get - so this dogma can also yield excellent results, but it takes a good ear and a certain mindset to pull off.

  1. Arrangement is just as important as sound selection

A good “mix” often has the various parts interlocking to create a unified whole. While you can use subtractive EQ and “glue compression” for adding unity, also give thought to your arrangement. Would that pad fit better at a different octave? Does that tambourine track really need to be there at this section of the song? etc

  1. Reference your tracks

This cannot be overstated. If you want your stuff to sound like X (whatever that means), make sure you A/B your stuff to the commercially released songs. This will help whether you work on headphones, monitors or crappy speakers in bad acoustics. Just be sure to levelmatch your A/Bs thorroughly (there’s even some apps/plugins for that nowadays)

  1. Try to work fast and keep volume in check

Our brains are highly subjective regarding our senses at times. Your hearing will get weird if you listen to the same thing for a long period. Try to nail things as fast as possible, and take listening breaks. Also, if a mix sounds good at low volume, it often sounds even better when up crank the volume. The same cannot always be said about the opposite!

  1. Volume and panning

There I said it. Especially with club music, hitting things at just the right level can make or break a mix. Volume is so underrated these days! One of my friend has a sticker on his maschine controller saying “MAKE SURE THE DRUMS ARE TOO LOUD AND OUT OF PHASE”, which IMO is an excellent reminder for keeping a perspective on this.

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:+1: or just disconnect internet

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yeah a studio with no Internet is really helpful to stay focused on the music

a studio without computer only works if you have an outboard mixing desk and a good recorder :wink:

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Using gears has just become such a hype thing in the last 5 years and I also see on more and more gear-only “producers” publishing crap unhearable stuffs and thinking it is cool just because it is gear only.

I am producing my own music since 2007 based on the roots of House and Techno using a lots of minimalistic melodic and experimental elements like grooves, percussions or sound design. The first track I have plublished ever has hitted the number one position on the all over Beatport chart and that time I did not have any chance to pay for a company to bump my track on the charts up. I did this song on a motherboard soundcard, using a really cheap headphone, without using any controllers or something.

Since then I believe the most important thing in the Techno music is to try to find all time something TECHNICALLY new when you are producing. It does not matter if it is a new solution in the digital or in the hardware world, or you have just simply discovered a new, interesting combination for a transition in the structure. I do not mean that using gears is not good, but being orthodox knob-head and excluding eveyrhing else is may not the way how Techno musicians should think.

I am also very rigid to myself in the process of mixing as well. I think this is what the most time and practice needs. I tooks me long long years for example to understand how my sound works, and how do I have to balance my mix. Of course it is changing by every each project, but there are some static rules that I go along. For example few years ago I would not have thought that the smallest volume adjusments (like 0.2-0.3 db ±) how tricky and helpful can be for reach a better mastering result.

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IMO you logic makes no sense - a lot of crap, as well as good music, is being released that has been made 100% ITB, 100% OTB or a combination.

Sure you can say that people use OTB as a crutch. But some OTB purists might easily say the same thing about ITB “talentless hacks with crakd software and sampl pax” etc. Let’s be real here. The fact your music blew up is because your music appeals to people, not because you used this-nor-that.

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I quite realize that every coin has two sides, and I know pretty well how much sample pack based crap stuff has been released. I guess you got me wrong. I did not come with my example because I believe using only this or that makes you succesful, but being opened for any technical solutions may helps you to be more productive in Techno.

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For me, this is the key! Before you drop a plugin into your session, get your levels right, balance, balance, balance…

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@Lowagiash Fully agree, I was stating my own preferences for working, and your attitude of using the built in soundcard is in itself a great example of getting down to the music without worrying about the gear used.

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Put a donk on it.

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This - Signed! :slight_smile:
There’s an audience for almost everything out there!

The best advice i have is to NOT focus on any genre - at all! The mistake a lot of people make (i think) is that they try to force themselve into a specific genre. They listen to the tracks of people they inspire them and now they try to redo it. But this doesnt work! You MUST experiment, you must simply START creating music and let go. The more music you create the more you will realize that it drifts into a specific direction - if you know what i mean :wink: Build upon that - and NOT against it. Just because you wanna stay in a specific genre. If its not Techno, well - it isnt Techno, but it may be something else, so why not?!

Theres enough mass produced (EDM :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes: ) shit out there, that always sounds the same - template productions i would call that ^^ - just because it sells well. We dont need more of that; we need music! And music isnt bound to a specific sound you have in mind. So yeah - take inspiration from everythere but dont put yourself down only because it doesnt sound exactly like the stuff from Avicii or Alan Walker or whoever you took your inspiration from :slight_smile: Build on what you have and you will find your own style in the end. And im sure there is an audience for that - somewhere :wink:

In the end its like Matt Keenan - winner of the Elektron Science Lab - said in his creation called Youre not a a device … its not the machine or the software or the samples you use - its YOU and what you make out of it :wink: Probably the “one and only” advice for music producers out there.

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Good post, basically a recipe for NOT making generic music. Oth coming from experimental music/electronic, nowadays i tend to be more interested in clearly identified genres eg techno/house/ambient that will have a genre specific approach with a personal twist/touch.
Sometimes i like saying to myself “that’s a f****** good techno track”.
Also freeform/genre defying compositions don’t stick that much in my memory as it used to be when i was after experimental sound textures. IDM/glitch bore me to death these days. Maybe i’m just getting old :))

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