Screens.. yes or no?

I didn’t want to mention the MPC and it’s touch screen (best not to upset @Fin25 :sunglasses:) but I find it useful. Of course you can use the soft knobs to access many of the parameters but you still rely on the feedback from the screen so you know you’re using the correct soft knob.

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Definitely on both points.

Also some gear can have a simple old school 7 segment LED or 2 line LCD display and still manage to adequately display information, some gear does not.

Deluge display is actually quite ok (though needs auto scroll option really) because the pads do a good job of displaying most of the information - even audio waveforms.

OP-Z has no screen and for the vast majority of basic things it is ok, but it really reveals the limitation of that design choice in other areas - notably audio waveforms, and some settings.

The Roland boutiques are fine without a proper screen, the LED display and other LEDs manage to adequately show every setting at a glance.

I think overall most of the time I prefer not to look at a screen, I’d much rather knob positions show where a parameter is set, but it is not possible on a lot of gear, although motorised pots/faders could work, if add a bit to the cost. For stuff like sample editing a screen or some other graphical representation (as on Deluge) speeds things up considerably vs a numeric only display or doing it by ear, although some of the time I’ll use a computer for that - eg preparing drum samples or loops.

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Rusty spoon ser?

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Lolz at the eyesight thing - manufacturers need to get a handle on this, since it is mostly middle aged people buying these kind of instruments now. :joy:

And whitespace has no place, especially on gear, but also on websites etc. Whatever dickhead started that trend….

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Yeah I’ve reached that point in my life where large parts of my day involve squinting at stuff with a feint look of bemusement on my kite. And that’s just in work…

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cough new elektron website cough

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I meant on websites, it became a plague in the past few years, now they all look the same, hardly any info, lots of wasted space, etc.

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Whitespace != wasted space. Just saying.

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Give me screens. Informative, useful ones with well-designed interfaces that show exact parameter values. Visual representations of envelope curves help me a lot too. I started making music in a DAW 13 years ago and it really helps me to see things. I can do without, but I prefer having the assurance that my ears aren’t deceiving me (I have some hearing damage). Having a screen on my Pro-3, for instance, makes dialing something in or returning a value to its previous state way easier for me than it is on my Take5.

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I was going to mention the OB-6. It’s great to work on with no screen. Pro-3 is another fine one. The display is helps for setting up things like modulation. But for the most part is not needed. Who wants to stare at a screen when you perform music?

A screen is often a waste of power for few characters, but you can reduce knobs for menu pages.
I jam with a couple friends who don’t usually use this type of equipment. Elektron requires one to use the display. It’s not for everyone. Honestly, too many menus makes it difficult for many to learn and one can get lost when looking for a setting. Part of the reason I didn’t like to use the A4 any longer was the need to use the display and menus. Octatrack is another beast that requires this type of complexity. Most people don’t want to menu dive. I prefer immediate knobs for synths rather than changing the page of limited knobs.

I’m happy to defend (good) touchscreens. If you’re editing an envelope and you can instantly grab and tweak all the levels and times, and also adjust curves, or tap to edit samples and zoom in with a direct gesture, I think that’s all fantastic stuff. Touchscreens lose my interest when they simply try to replicate the alternative - there’s no need for skeuomorphic knobs and switches, just embrace the format and use it intelligently.

I’d rather have a well-designed touchscreen interface than another set of multi-purpose real-world knobs that jump around when you switch parameters. Of course I’d rather have a nice smooth dedicated filter knob over both of those, but you can’t always have everything.

I think touchscreens have gained a few mortal enemies becasue designs have been rushed out without due care. I don’t think the MPCs are quite there yet - some elements are very nice (sample editing), others clearly need work (piano roll). But they do point the way forward, as do any number of apps on the iPad, which is where all the really interesting stuff happens. I love gear like the Lyra where eveyrthing’s tactile and you could operate it blindfolded, but a well-crafted touchscreen interface can be just as rewarding - it’s the middle ground that needs to shrink.

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I put electrical tape over all my screens. I prefer a poke and hope experience.

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…touch touch display only is too much for me…i can watch a star trek season instead and enjoy that more…too many ubernice apps out there which do that trick for the better, but lead to nowhere, end of the day…

while, mayyybeeee, i gonna chnge my mind one day, once bitwig runs smoothly on ipads without any compromises…bitwig via touch display could tempt me…only on a very large screen, though…

but music remains a tactile thing…even when it all ends up in some computer…

while less screen functionality always means more direct access, more knobs per function options and way more need for physical space …which would make any digi machine for example, absolutely unaffordable right from the get go…

smart and good designs make all the difference…the perfect balance between watching and touching…

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yes or no

No, because a truly great musical instrument shouldn’t require eye-sight to operate (imo).

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Something like an MPC and iPad… touch bothers me. I keep trying to be inspired by Drambo, but it doesn’t sing to me. Having guitar nails on one hand doesn’t help either :sweat_smile:

Blackbox is surprisingly good though. An interesting exception.

When “performing”… the pages on Elektron don’t really need to be seen. It’s all muscle memory. When dialing in a patch or naming projects/etc… it’s pretty needed IMHO

Something I really like about the Elektrons is that you eventually don’t need the screens once you are ready to go.

I will agree though, on the A4 a bigger screen would do wonders but that’s a pipe dream haha

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This is an interesting concept that’s come up a few times in the comments, the difference between playing and programming maybe? For instance I wouldn’t use a screen while playing keys or while tweaking a running sequence… id use my ears and knowledge of the controls to hand. I’d class that as playing. But for stuff like modulation routings, menu and global settings I’d class that as programming (simplistic terms but I’m just making a distinction) and here I prefer a screen. So yeah, any good instrument should be playable without a screen.

This is a really interesting point as it relates to touchscreens in particular. I guess haptics could help here as technology develops. Devices like the iPad also have voice control and accelerometers etc, which are separate from the screen. I could certainly imagine iPad instruments being usable without being able to see the screen, if they were designed appropriately. Something like the MPC is trickier - that’s where it’s important that the screen not be used as a lazy or cheap alternative, but rather as a creative but optional extension / convenience. I suspect the current MPCs need more work there in a few areas.

It’s always useful to be reminded that some perceived benefits can be obstacles for others, though I expect menu-heavy ‘traditional’ multi-function interfaces could be as frustrating as touchscreens in this regard.

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Electribe 2 will train you to enjoy the suffering.

For me, the screen doesn’t work. I’ve ditched the Polyend Tracker, because it’s too much screen-staring. More happy with the Model:Cycles or the OP-Z (though I might return the latter because of the build quality). Probably depends what you’re looking for. A screen might be useful for finetuning and perfection. For me, it’s about the flow and the sometimes unpredictable.

I think it depends on the kit. I never use DAW or computer for music, so I’m avoiding that type of screen because I use one all day for work. But:

  • Octatrack - yes definitely
  • MPC Live 2 - I was sceptical but I like how the touchscreen works for things like filter envelopes, volume automations etc
  • 303 - definitely NOT!
  • DSI Evolver desktop - I think would benefit from a Blofeld type screen so you can figure out what the hell is going on in there :slight_smile:
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