For the past few years I’ve been making electronic music with a hardware-only setup. I wanted to start recording things, so I switched out my mixer with a Scarlett 18i20. Now this necessitates me having to integrate a computer and Ableton Live into the setup and all the associated headaches.
One of those headaches is latency. I know this is common, and I’ve searched the Elektron boards for helpful info but haven’t found any solutions. I’m getting a very perceptible amount of latency to an extent that it’s just not practical to combine hardware and software instruments/effects in one project. I’ve tried to trouble-shoot it by the usual means: lowering the buffer, increasing the sample rate. I’ve switched out midi cables just to see if that was the problem. I’ve compared the difference in latency using both a Digitakt and an Octatrack against a click track in Live and both suffer the same amount.
Another thing that is happening is that I’m just not having as much fun making music. More and more I am reaching for VST’s rather than using my hardware just because they’re easy to use and have so many interesting patches and jumping off points. I am always trying to find that elusive patch or loop that makes my track better.
It’s a classic more is less scenario. But the cost of the audio interface and all that time wasted creates a lot of cognitive dissonance that is making it hard to move forward. Ideally I’d like to figure out how to make this hybrid setup work, while resisting the tsunami of tools in Ableton enough to enjoy jamming again.
I would say: stick to the plan and use the computer only to record. This way, you won’t have any latency issue, and if you wanna add FX, do it at the mixing stage
When I was recording to a DAW, while there was latency all the tracks were in time upon play back. If you need them to fit to the grid, trimming them at the beginning always worked for me. I was, however, literally just using the DAW as a multi track recorder. I did all the other work post recording.
It’s actually the opposite. Set monitoring to off in Live, and monitor your hardware instruments directly from the sound card - provided that your sound card supports direct monitoring.
If you monitor your instruments through Live, there is an inevitable latency.
The tightest solution for me with Ableton is to use the overbridge plugin. I sync my DN and A4 via OB and the Octatrack and other equipment from A4 or DN via midi cable.
All the HW synced via MIDI 5-pin with the use of a MIDI Thru box. Set Ableton’s tempo to the same as your Master clock. Start recording in Ableton, press Start on your Master device. Enjoy.
I’ve only been able to get Overbridge to work when allowing live to use the Elektron device as the audio interface. So I’ve only been able to use one instance of Overbridge at a time. How do you get multiple instances of OB to work (i.e., DT, A4, and AR all on their own tracks)?
Sorry I was a little quick yesterday, just described what works for me, in more details:
Live plays it’s clips and software instruments, I hear them through my soundcard.
my hardware (via a mixer) is plugged to an input of the soundcard
without any extra track in Live, I hear both in time - provided that I have a proper MIDI clock between them, because my soundcard has direct monitoring, and directly outputs what comes through its inputs.
when it’s time to record, I create an audio track in Live, leave monitoring to OFF, and record. What I record is played back as I heard it while recording, latency-wise.
One thing that is important to know is: does Live send MIDI notes to your hardware instruments or not? If yes, the external instrument is the best solution in my opinion.
…what a nice thread title for such an ordinary problem…
how about harvesting ur hardware magic and just record…while monitoring nothing but that…
then get it sorted on ur daw grid and start getting further vst stuff involved…
My suggestion would be to sell the soundcard and buy an RME. For me, it just fixed my hybrid set-up. And believe me I tried for years, thinking it was impossible. Years man. I mean, you could buy one new and just see if it helps. If not, return it and spend the rest of your life adjusting your settings in Live.
Agreed. The scenario I described above is with an RME Multiface ucx. I guess other sound cards do direct monitoring though. But sure, RME never failed me either.
For a mix of hardware going into your audio interface and software instruments sequenced from hardware/inside daw, monitor everything through your DAW (same latency for everything hardware and software, no problem with small buffer settings) - if only recording hardware, direct monitor (through mixer or audio interface) or if you’re using lots of software fx you want to hear while recording, monitor through daw with small buffer settings.
If someone is standing 4 meters away from you and says hello, you’re experiencing 11 ms delay - with small buffer settings on a half decent computer and interface 7-8 ms roundtrip latency (3,5 ms - 4 ms input latency and output latency) should be possible. For most people that’s in the realm of " feels instant". So monitoring everything through your daw should work well.
I want to chip in here as I’ve been running a hybrid setup for quite some years now and have battled with latency before.
I use a Usamo sync box that transforms audio from Ableton to midi.
Ableton is master, clock goes to Rytm.
Other hardware is connected via usb when it’s new and it has it, vintage stuff with either Kenton usb midi to cv box or a cheap m-audio midi to usb interface (I don’t have any midi in on my main interface).
All the hardware is monitored through Live, where I also add soft synths etc (freezing tracks is your friend when you have complex chains).
Delay compensation in Ableton is off.
Buffer size as low as it can go.
I still have a small amount of latency (recorded hardware is not on the grid) but it doesn’t matter to me. Latency is not perceivable while playing the hardware or the soft synths.
I treat the Rytm as if it was the drummer in my band, everything follows the Rytm.
I never use the metronome on Ableton but instead that on the Rytm.
I sequence everything from Ableton apart from elektron stuff because its sequencer is so good.
I play keys, so when I sequence synths it’s almost always live. It works perfectly.
Finally, if I want to sequence by drawing the notes (or laying them down with the Push controller) I just do that, then grab them and slightly move them until the tempo sounds ok.
I gave up on having stuff on the grid and frankly I don’t care, the grooves I get are more groovy that way anyway.
