Scenes/Parts bug with pickup track

Hi everyone

Been doing well with my new OT since a few month,

and now I think I have my first real bug (not the kind of “bug” that derives from misunderstanding the engine and not enough manual readings :wink: )

I use a pickup machine on track 8 to be able to transition smoothly from one song (8patterns and 2 parts) to another (the 8 other patterns of the bank, and the 2 other parts).

So far it works flawlessly for me to record a 64 steps loop of cued internal tracks and crossfade to it with no problem.

but using FX and SCENES just began to process weirdly on this pickup track.

Scenes locks purely won’t work anymore on this track alone, although the crossfader little icon is moving on the screen and I’m able to manually turn the pots with efficient effect in return… Say I use delay on fx slot 2, I can send delay with the pot, but scene-locking this param has no effect anymore…

AND

sometimes, the delay will happen but with delay send to 0 and no scene lock on this parameter, and then no way to turn the feedback to 0 but I still can control the delay volume…

And during all these moments all other tracks (flex and static) could still be scene locked and controlled with the scenes with no problem at all.

I tried lots of things, reloaded parts (it then works all of a sudden, then it doesn’t work anymore just the time after…), set Audio CC Out to INT and disabled Audio CC IN… reloaded the project…

It seems using a pickup machine makes very buggy the relationship between my parts, scenes and the actual parameters of the engine…

I could forget the FX slots for this pickup track, but since I tried it I really want to use it… (delay and EQ are delicious for smooth transitions!!)

I’ll try to duplicate the problem on a new project to see if this still happens, but I’d really like to keep my present project because it is a 16-songs-live-set in one huge project and I can’t recreate all of this!!

If anyone has any idea of what’s going on there, I’m really pleased to hope one of you may help me sort this out :smiley:

Thanks a lot and long life to this forum

Can you try using a track other than Track 8 for your pickup machine?

I get the impression Track 8 is kind of reserved for “master track” functions - perhaps there are 1 or more bugs due to conflicts between the master track stuff and the pickup machine functionality.

Total wild guess on my part, but do try using a different track for your pickup machine stuff and see if the problem appears on that other track.

Thanks for the idea GovernorSilver,

I’ll try this tonight as I didn’t have any time to switch the OT on today (15m3 of wood logs to store :wink: )

Perhaps the problem could also be there because of the history of this track in my live-set composition process… Track 8 has been tested under diverse uses, first I used it as master track, then I used flex machine with transition trick and recorder buffer with Cue, then I tested Thru machine with hardware synth, and then I tried and loved the pickup machine, first with input A, then with both Cue and input A…

I’ll investigate further more,

To be continued :slight_smile:

OK been right now testing with a blank new project…

And I can replicate the bug on any track, not just on the 8th one:

  • create pickup machine track with input A and src3 is Cue, set monitoring with AB = 127 on record setup page 2.

  • create 2 patterns, one assigned to part 1 and the other to part 2

  • pick something up in the pickup machine (either internal cue or external input)

  • assign scene 9 to scene B slot

  • assign some filtering and delay send to scene 9

  • play a bit, it is fine for now

  • then switch to pattern 2 (part 2)

  • here make same assignations on scene 9 (part2), I.e. assign delay send to max

It works, scene 9 makes the delay happen, BUT just get back with the crossfader to left scene slot (muted or blank) and delete the assignation on scene 9 (the delay send), then get back to scene 9 with the fader and BOOM!!! Delay still here…

And now you can try other assignation on this scene 9, like a filter, and it won’t work.

Things happen quick, the process can be in different order no matter… Scenes on pickup track become useless (either no effect, or “sticky” assignations that you can erase but still happen…)

REAL BUG ALERT!!!

don’t forget to submit this info to elektron in the form of a support ticket

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The following is a support ticket I filed 12/20/14…

While switching from a pattern linked with a part with a pickup machine on a track, then switching to another pattern linked to a different part with something other than pickup machine on the same track(flex lets say), if the pickup machine isn’t running before switching, the new part/pattern will trigger the pickup machine loop from the old part instead of the assigned sample of the new part, even if sample locked and starts silent is selected. Also scene behavior of new part might still respond to the old pattern/parts scene. Workaround has been to make sure pickup loop is running before switching, muted if necessary. Also noticed while switching from a pattern linked to a part to another pattern linked to a different part that has recorder trigs, sometimes the recorder source and length from the first part get used, even if I lock the sources. Workaround has been to set all recorder buffers of same track number across parts to the same settings. Seems like a bug… Thanks Mike

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Seems like your issue may be related to what I put in bold above. For me if the pm was not playing and I switched to another pattern linked to a different part, the scene from the previous part would be active(or maybe just the scene parameters from the specific track the pm was on, don’t remember). If the pickup was playing when I switched patterns/parts, the next scene would behave correctly. Does your scene work if you switch patterns while the pm is playing?

Hey

thanks for your inputs and interest

@tsutek : I’ll send a ticket to Elektron but I guess as I’m using 1.25E (1,25H had some weird bugs I can’t even remember) they will ask me to update to H…

@Open_Mike :

I use the pickup track to transition between 2 patterns with different parts so yes I always have the pickup track running when using it, and I guess if it’s running, it’s playing :wink:
Your own problem is definitely in the same range of bugs involving pickup machine messing with the part/scene-OTparameters relationship…

For now I don’t use scene locks anymore for my pickup track, doing manually all the filtering and delay sending while transitioning between the 2 patterns and using scenes for other tracks, but solving this bug would allow me more on-time manipulation of certain critical stuff while letting scenes take care of the pickup machine FXs…

I could live without that, but that’s definitely a severe deep OT bug…

Thanks guys

To be continued :smiley:

Maybe a stupid question, but must you absolutely use pickup machines for the transition trick? Wouldn’t other machines also work for this?

I don’t know, I tried using flex with record buffer but I didn’t feel the process very intuitive (pickup don’t need any record and play trigs),

I may have another look at it, but I also use the pickup track as a looper with input A, so I can use both looper/external AND cue record…

Thanks for the input, I’ll have another look on the flex/record buffer

Hi,

Bug persists.

I have a trick now, I use pickup on one part, then a flex machine using same buffer on the next part. The next next part reintroduces a pickup machine, and so on.

Then there is no bug for the transition, but I still can’t scene-lock the track that holds the pickup machine but I can live with that.

Had to spread my tunes on more banks of the project to have more parts to deal with for each tube, lots of copy/paste work for patterns + parts!

Still anyone with the same problem? Do you know if problem persists with 1.25H?

Cheers

Hi there!
I m having the same problem on Os 1.25H.

I am complete noob with the Octa so thanks to your post at least I know I m not messing round too much or missing important info from the manual :sweat_smile:
And actually I m just learning how to use the recording buffer on different tracks, I was still confused about that!

Anyway do you guys know other bugs and connected workarounds on Pickup machines? I m planning to use them extensively for my set so I wanna be prepared!

I m sorry if this question has been covered elsewhere, but I m a noob to the forum as well :grin:

Thank you all!

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Welcome :thup:

The search is pretty good now, so it’s down to search term choice
Pickup & bugs gets you this trawl of useful threads to browse usage nuance and opinion

Sometimes I see them referred to as PUM or PM also maybe search for issues or glitch if those threads don’t get you thinking about the perceived shortcomings

it’s best to master what’s on offer than to rue what’s missing, there are certainly some niggling aspects

Hi Druido

glad to see I’m not alone with the bug, and sad to see it still exists on 1.25H,

I’m also quite new to this forum and the octatrack, but I have searched a lot here and otherwhere and didn’t find a single post about this problem, this is weird since I think there are lots of heavy pickup machine users in the elektron crowd… ???

I agree with you Avantronica, (best to master what is here than to rue on what’s missing),

but this is not a missing feature is it a feature just not properly working as it should :wink:

anyway it is a minor thing for me, but as it is the only minor thing I have with the OT, this minor thing tends to get major, ah ah!

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Thanks for the link!
lot of great info in there :slight_smile:
Great to see so many shortcuts and unespected things!

Btw nobody rues here, is just that I bought the Octa to replace a lot of single Fx pedals and other stuff so of course I still have that kind of workflow mentality; Even reading the manual and all I get stuck on certain things, like implementing a machine with another etc.

The Octatrack is really a deep machine, I am replacing a 4 channel looper and all my guitar pedals and voice effects and a kaosspad/mixer with just this single box and it does way more of what I could do before in 1/10 th of the space so really I couldn t be happier about it!

Is just going to take sometime before I can really be confident to really stay in the flow while I m playing as I was used to have every single effect as a visible/direct hands-on device!

MonstreJumo for what I m seeing now on the forum it looks like there is quite some people using pickupmachines for a live djing/remixing in a live band context.
Like recording bits and pieces of other players or themselves and the mangle them, and probably in that case they just don t need an arranger or things of that sort.
While for folks that use the Octa for purely electronic act probably pickup machines are not so appealing (?) just guessing…

Have we found a real solution to this? I basically just want to fade between different guitar loops using the scene locks and the OT can be very temperamental and sometimes it will mute the correct pickup machines and sometimes it just refuses to do so. I just want the damn volume locks to work as they are supposed to. If I mute a track for a scene and slide to it I just want it to be silent!

Whats goin on with this eh? I feel like it probably comes down to the fact that there are no trigs on the pick up machines as as such the scenes decide not to work sometimes.

Any solutions y’all?

Go to Project menu -> control -> sequencer. Check LFO auto change. Does this help?

Edit: the answer is not really :frowning:

I’ll try this, any tip bas to be tried!

Cheers

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The LFO auto change only applies the current scenes to the PU track when changing parts, but changing them (the parts) after the fact has no effect. (Edit: ok I may have been fooling myself. The LFO setting probably does nothing in this scenario)

I believe this behaviour is indeed caused by the part change and the fact that PU tracks don’t have trigs. If you know beforehand how you will progress through your parts/patterns I think a good solution would be to use a Flex machine in the new part, playing the buffer where your PU recording is.

I’m not at the OT right now but one more thing; what happens if you trig the PU track in the new part via the corresponding trig button? Will that refresh the parts for the track?

Edit: so I checked. Trigging the machine via buttons 9-16 will refresh the scenes so you can use them as normal. You probably want to have quantised playback set for the track.

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Yup its definitely an issue with the lack of trigs. I don’t really have an option to moves these out of pick up machines as a have a set together where I loop my guitar and need them to be pick ups. I’m not really changing pattterns or Parts just scenes for mutes and effects locks.

I tried triggering the machine with buttons 9-16 and the effects that I had locked via scenes yes did start working if I quantized both with the QREC and QPL to PLEN. Not an ideal situation at all but glad they work some now. Just really would rather not have to think about retrigging the tracks to get this to work.

I should also mention that I’m using the arranger to shift between scenes which I feel like might also have something to do with this.

Can’t they just do a damn make it so you can put some trigless trigs on the pickup machines as to avoid having to click the damn button every time to refresh the scene.