Rytm Velocity Mod - level knob not working to set the velocity range (?)

Elektron Gear Analog Rytm
#1

I’m a bit confused, from the manual:

VELOCITY MOD gives access to a menu where up to four PARAMETER page parameters can be assigned to the velocity mod parameter. Open the menu by pressing [YES/SAVE]. Use DATA ENTRY knobs A-D to select parameters from any of the PARAMETER pages. Use DATA ENTRY knobs E-H to set themodulation depth for the chosen parameters. Use the LEVEL knob to set the overarching velocity range.

I don’t understand how I set the velocity range using the level knob. The virtual level knob just seems to show the velocity of the last hit and turning the level knob updates the virtual knob but doesn’t seem to have any other effect that I can see.

What am I missing?

Also are velocity mods bipolar or unipolar? What’s the midpoint velocity?

Eg if I have a mod set to Filter Freq +32
Does a hit with velocity 0 get +0 or -32?

I guess most of my sounds are designed at velocity 100 which is the default. So I’d like to be able to increase/decrease stuff relative to velocity 100 if that’s possible.

Thanks.

The Elektron documentation thread
#2

That’s down to the note (or synth) having decayed away … it’s also important to audition a useful parameter if exploring

A simple test case is a dvco with the initial voice configuration (two identical low harmonic waves) - set those to decay infinitely (and ensure the amp or filter env is not truncating the drone)

Now when you set a solitary modulation of +48 to destination Osc2Detune you get a range of on octave across the whole velocity range

if you tap the track pad now (with velocity to Vol set to OFF in sound settings - and not using the FIXed pad velocity button) you will see(and hear) the relationship between the input velocity and the detune offset

As you know gauging the velocity input is tricky, however, because we have a droning note (and a parameter which is audible) you can now use the level encoder to audition the velocity range in-situ

The important thing you want to establish is now simpler for you to fine-tune

Velocity of 100 is not a relative position in terms of the bipolarity of the modulation

You need to think of velocity being monopolar like a Modwheel, not like a pitchbend wheel (and certainly don’t get distracted by the velocity you generally program)

The modulation depth is bipolar, but the source is not

Therefore a velocity swing of +/-10 around 100 will strengthen or weaken relative to 100, but it won’t show bipolarity for most situations (i.e. you could have an offset on pan as the current track setting and the range +/-10 around 100 may shift the pan left/right of centre, but it is NOT to do with the velocity you strike being 100, that’s arbitrary)

So, there’s no midpoint velocity, in the terms you ask about.

You cannot hit with velocity 0 btw - this is where the menu can be a little misleading (you can dial the velocity back to zero with the level knob, but you can never strike or program a Midi Note on with a velocity < 1)

In this regard, a velocity modulation macro (with a non-zero depth) will always have an effect potential on the sound

You can fine-tune your vel-mod macros relative to a programmed velocity of 100 by fine tuning the depths in the macro menu, but this is akin to parking your modulation wheel at 100 and tuning depths relative to that

Velocity is a useful source for things like dynamics, but it’s a bit harder than other mod sources to utilise in a deliberately controlled way, especially as it’s so hard to play consistently and is generally tied to volume too

The other way you can audition the effect is to preprogram a sequence with velocity steps to taste, or set a 1st condition to drone a note … but for some parameters you will obviously need to retrigger the note (therefore trying to adjust the faux-velocity level encoder in real time will be meaningless, unless it’s a sustaining parameter, like pitch)

I think adjusting your title from [Rytm Velocity Mod level not working] to [Rytm Velocity Mod level configuration ?] would be helpful

#3

Thanks for the response, it’s going to take me a while to parse it all I think. I don’t really understand.

I think adjusting your title from [Rytm Velocity Mod level not working] to [Rytm Velocity Mod level configuration ?] would be helpful

The LEVEL knob in Velocity Mod “not working” is at least “not working how I interpret how the manual seems to describe it” as it doesn’t appear to allow me to set an (overarching?) velocity range for the modulations. eg. I want to set up a bunch of modulations that I want to apply from velocity 100 to 127, but that is not possible I think from what you’re saying.

I think I get most of what you’re saying, that velocity modulations are unipolar relative to 0 velocity.

Thus say a filter frequency modulation of +64 will be +64 at max velocity and +0 at min velocity and +32 at 64 velocity.

That’s down to the note (or synth) having decayed away …

Velocity only applies on note trigger though right? so changing it after initial hit makes no sense to me unless it does something else…

Sorry I must say I’m still a little lost about this.

#4

Yes - that’s why i explained two different ways to audition the effect of velocity - one where the parameters are audible longer, and one where you need to retrigger (thus the need to sequence)
You can’t intercept a played note by adjusting that ‘virtual’ velocity ‘slider’ (a played note always takes priority, superseding the level encoder slider) … a played note will take the level to the played level

that’s why i explained its utility as you appeared to be asking about it, i explain how you can answer your own questions, by exploiting teh fact that pitch can be easily auditioned - thus you can determine for yourself how the velocity mod macro works

I give little credence to the phrase you highlighted in bold btw, i’d ignore that, or seek clarification in the documentation topic if you think there’s something amiss (i think it’s operating as intended, which is implicitly less useful than ‘retrospective/additive’ controllers like modwheel/aftertouch etc)

#5

You explained well the way velocity mods work (their polarity and range), thank you! (it took me a little while to process it, but I think it makes sense now)

As you know gauging the velocity input is tricky, however, because we have a droning note (and a parameter which is audible) you can now use the level encoder to audition the velocity range in-situ

This I don’t understand… the note is droning, what impact will the level knob have since the velocity doesn’t apply after the note is already triggered? And what velocity range are you talking about?

But what I don’t understand is the point of the physical level knob on that screen… it updates the virtual knob but otherwise has not other impact right (unless it’s somewhere setting a range like the docs say but isn’t displayed anywhere)?

I give little credence to the phrase you highlighted in bold btw, i’d ignore that, or seek clarification in the documentation topic if you think there’s something amiss (i think it’s operating as intended, which is implicitly less useful than ‘retrospective/additive’ controllers like modwheel/aftertouch etc)

Well that phrase is actually the main point of my query… Could be it’s just a documentation bug, but it’s certainly confusing since being able to set the velocity range is exactly what I was looking for but it doesn’t seem to work. (hence creating this topic)

I’ll go back to the device and spend more time with it and see if I can make more sense of it.

Thanks for your time and patience!

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#6

some parameters can be exploited to expose the modulation depth settings in a useful exploratory way

there are synths/parameters/machines where the strike velocity will instantiate a non varying audible event,

the purpose of this velocity slider is analogous to both a meter and to a partial fake controller (the controller side works out MUCH better for aftertouch as this is attached to many more parameters which are variable after initiation)

The aftertouch (or modwheel typically on most other devices) is the ‘template’ for this velo-mod screen you are immersed in - this is why i discard the text you highlight as superfluous - there is no concept of range (it’s more of a documentation clarity issue imho)

The virtual slider (for either velocity or aftertouch) is both a ‘meter’ and also an ad-hoc ‘controller’

in both cases - when live playing the meter will react to your input (a single velocity snapshot or a continuous monitoring of pressure) and in both cases (for certain parameters wrt velocity) you can use this slider controller like a ‘virtual’ input

That’s why i described the case of using oscillator detune (on a droning note) as it’s the only meaningful way to make this utility work for you - it’s simply working with more constraints than e.g. the virtual aftertouch slider does and it’s clearly more difficult to use this virtual velocity slider on transient sounds (thus recommending pre-programming velocity steps into a sequence) - you can modify the effect of some velocity modulations using this virtual slider

The Elektron documentation thread
#7

not sure I fully understand the query but to get a quick experiment of the mods you can:

  • solo one track and put one trig with VEL 127 on step 1, put RETRIG by holding the trig and hitting the [UP ARROW] key and set in the RETRIG menu the values of:
    • LEN: 16
    • VEL: -128

now you have 16 trigs with velocity going from 127 to 0

  • remove the VELOCITY TO VOL in the SOUND SETUP menu [FUNC + FLTR]
  • start experimenting with various destinations and the ranges, for example if your filter is fully open set the vel mod of FILT FREQ to -128 and see how it works, then close the filter and invert the range in the mod menu. next try the AMP LEVEL, or SYN LEVEL, or SMPL LEVEL, or AMP PAN, or any other parameter. once you get how it interacts with the params, fine tune your ranges by setting the correct initial position of the param and the corresponding velocity mod range

slow down the tempo or play with the RETRIG menu to add/shorten space between the notes.
or reverse the velocity to go from 0 to 127 by reversing the values in RETRIG menu.
etc. etc. etc.

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