Rytm Owner - Should I spring for an MD too? (Techno/deep house)

geoffmar · 2014-10-08T22:09:21.000Z

I know this topic has been beaten to death in these forums (and many others) but I have this idea in my head that i need a machinedrum. My current setup is a Minitaur - Rytm - Virus ti2. Next purchase will be either the machinedrum or an analog poly (keys?). Will the machinedrum give me THAT much more percussive flexibility? Can i just get an MKII (non uw) for a decent price? Or will the sampler be that much more worth it.

Thanks in advance elektronauts!

Geoff

subbz2k · 2014-10-08T22:39:47.000Z

I own the Rytm and i had a MD UW+ MKII for several years. When it comes to percussion synthesis nothing beats the MD !! In my opinion. If you want a machine where you actually dont need to rely on samples at all to make it sound good, the MD is definitely worth it! The Rytm is not nearly as flexible as the MD is and - because the Rytm is analog - it always sounds similar every time you create something without samples. The MD has several Synthesis Methods which all sound completely different. And if you can grab a UW at a decent price you get the addition of having samples to play with and even more important: You get the actual sampling and resampling capability the Rytm doesnt have. This is priceless !! Trust me. Especially when it comes to the dubby Deep-House Chords and groovy Techhouse Grooves you can twist around by resampling them while combining them with the almost organic sounding Percussion Sounds the MD offers on some of their machines (EFM for example). I already regret that i sold my MD for the Rytm because i miss a lot on the Rytm that i got used to on the MD.

But the drawback is: The MD is more or less discontinued, so you cant expect anything new on it and if you do not have an audio interface or mixer where you have an Input Gain for a real Pre-AMP you dont get the loudest possible Mix into your computer at +4dBu and you have to post-gain which degrades the sound quality a bit. And the Rytm has the advantage that its initial sound is already quite powerful and you have Scenes and Perfomances as well as a dedicated Chromatic Mode which all are very handy - though still not perfect because especially the Scenes need to be changed in future OS Updates a bit, as untight Scene-Changes result in Audio Glitches - at least for me this happens all the time. But you have it, the Rytm (hopefully) will still receive a lot of updates and the MD does not have Performance Features in that way. Also with the Rytm you will get the Overbridge for bringing stuff into the computer much like you know it from your Virus TI already. If this is something one really needs at all for such hands on machines needs to be discovered when it’s out next year

In any way it is not the worst idea packing an MD beneath the Rytm. The MD can still easily outperform the Rytm with its versatility and flexibility in Sound Design but lacks when it comes to the Realtime Performance Capabilities the Rytm offers. But i would highly recommend to grab the UW Version because with this you can transfer Samples between Rytm and MD and you could therefore sample your Rytm, combine with the MD and come up with amazing Drumsounds that you can then transfer back to the Rytm from the MD for Performance Use

Always obviously depens what you need though. If you want more Synth you go better with an AK for sure. But as you already have that little Moog Beast and the “all in one for everything Synth” - the Virus i would say:

Get an MD - but get the UW-Version!! Along with the Rytm those two melt into one hell of a Drummachine no other Product on the Market could ever beat for sure!!

geoffmar · 2014-10-08T22:57:20.000Z

Wow thank you so much for that reply… extremely helpful. Love this forum!

subbz2k · 2014-10-08T23:03:29.000Z

You’re welcome And if you buy an MD and dont want it in the end: Give it to me as a thanks, will ya?! Cant wait to get my good old MD back man, but still have to save a lot as i think about buying a new one again …

DeckardTrinity · 2014-10-09T03:04:22.000Z

You will get a lot of percussive flexibility from adding a MD, no question about that. But… you already have a drum machine, analog and poly digital… maybe consider adding an OT instead to both sequence and get the sample based rhythms?

dubathonic · 2014-10-09T15:43:54.000Z

""subbz2k"":

But the drawback is: The MD is more or less discontinued, so you cant expect anything new on it

Not discontinued, they’re still being made. But it’s true they are essentially finished in terms of OS development … we shouldn’t expect new features.

""subbz2k"":

Get an MD - but get the UW-Version!!

…that’s good advice

phreak260 · 2014-10-09T18:35:22.000Z

i sold my AR. you will have to pry my MD from my cold, dead fingers.

dickmalibu · 2014-10-09T18:59:27.000Z

I have the opportunity to use the MD/Octa/A4
I am on the fence regarding the Rytm an amazing box from what I can tell
but imho I find that an MD/Octatrack combo is the best of all worlds. Actually having the MD made a lot of the “elektron” way of thinking a lot clearer. I will eventually find out for myself (planning on pressing the trigger on a Rytm ASAP)
I have a feeling I will probably be just as happy with an MD and Ocatatrack

bluewolfse7en · 2014-10-09T22:46:18.000Z

Subbz2k pretty much sums it up.
Not had any gain structure issues with mine however, tho, I am running into an RME Fireface UFX.

The 2 machines are chalk & cheese & compliment each other very well.
Some say the MD Kiks lack bottom end but if you look at an analyser with say the EFM or TRX B2 machine you’ll see gobs of sub, it’s just very low, say 90 down to 50 hz.
The RYTM has more low mid, around 160hz so on studio monitors it gives the impression of more bass.

RYTM is invaluable for polyrhythms, ReTrig, performance functions, mute mask & being able to blend a sample.
MD is glitch heaven, ram machines, ctrl all, 16 LFO that can be freely assigned anywhere, the list goes on, it’s a classic

subbz2k · 2014-10-09T23:23:57.000Z

""bluewolfse7en"":

Not had any gain structure issues with mine however, tho, I am running into an RME Fireface UFX.

Yeah mate with a 2000 € Interface you may probably not have any issues with any Hardware ever But there are a lot of Interfaces in the lower budged range available that do not offer Hardware - in that i mean pre-AMP - based Input Gain within their Mixer Applications so that you can compensate for the low input level you have by using the available Headroom with no degradation in Quality. On the cheaper systems you usually only have software based Gain which obviously is not the Gain you want And the Output Level of the MD MK2 connected with Balanced! Cables at Studio Level +4dBu is really low. Try it out and check it out: Not that its just always loud for you because you always run on -10dBv by accident …

""bluewolfse7en"":

… 16 LFO that can be freely assigned anywhere …

And we all hope that Elektron free’s the LFOs on the Rytm too When they are done with the Overbridge i have the feeling that they will introduce this to the Rytm as well as it just makes perfect sense - in any case.

subbz2k · 2014-10-09T23:33:42.000Z

""dubathonic"":

Not discontinued, they’re still being made. But it’s true they are essentially finished in terms of OS development … we shouldn’t expect new features.

That’s true! I should’ve written it the way you wrote it The Machine is complete, it’s good as it is right now (though i still want the Sticky Pattern Mode back!!! ) and to sum it up: It’s DSPs may probably not be able to handle - for example - the better Reverb Algorithms developed for the A4, transfered to the OT and enhanced on it and finally used on the Rytm as well. So more Synthesis Methods may also not be in the line of sight because of that. Although they theoretically would be possible.

So yeah … waiting for an MD mkIII then?! Or hey - that would be Cool - a successor for the Monomachine - the Polymachine or something?! Nah, just kiddin … lets not get lost from the topic

subbz2k · 2014-10-10T01:19:33.000Z

Yeah thats true, in the End you cant have enough Drummachines If i only listen to the Kick Channel of the almighty Vermona DRM1 MK3 for example … maaan, this thing probably creates the most organic and beautiful 808 Kick i ever heard so far!!! Some say that it even sounds better than the original if treated right

The Low End on the Rytm and the MD is different. Bluewolfse7en said this already and he’s right. And in that point the Problem with the Kicks on the MD is most prominent to those that do not have good Studio Monitors. Or no Studio Monitors at all. On my Alesis M1 Active MK2 for example i created Kicks on the MD that had so much Power in them because those Monitors go deep. Really deep. But as i listened to it on my basic Hifi-System for the Computer im using (which is also the system where i mostly listen to music in general) i had to notice that all of the sudden all that nice lowend in the Kick was gone! And because in the end we all produce music for the millions of listeners out there and not for other producers this can really become a problem as you have to expect that not everybody listening to your music has a good Hifi-System around - or even Studio Monitors. But to solve this problem the MD has a one Band semi-parametric EQ for every track. Which allows you to boost exactly those frequencies most people will hear quite good on their systems.

And the Rytm - has the same problem !!! Although the BT has a tremendous amount of low-end that - as you said Baddcr - usually has to be tamed all the time the BD on the other hand is - in my opinion - not good! Its low-end can barely be heard on usual Audio Systems when you form it into certain directions (808ish like, when you create Techhouse for example) but other than on the MD you have no EQ on the Rytm’s Tracks to sculpt it! You have to use the regular filter to do the job, but what if you needed that filter for creating that specific Bassdrum you wanted? Well - bad luck then! And this is definitely a step backward when beeing compared to the MD.

So yeah - both machines have their glances and weaknesses and if you compare them you will notice that the MD is still the most complete and versatile one of the two. But to be fair: The Rytm was just released this year while the MD is there for decades already. So Elektron still has some Housekeeping Work with it and if they do the Rytm will become better and better the longer it lives - much like a good vine that needs some time to reach its full tasty pleasure

OHEXOH · 2014-10-10T10:16:21.000Z

I always found the output of the MD MKII to be plenty loud.

In reply to the others here though - yes, you can definitely get more unique sounds on the MD, but I find making ‘classic drum machine’ type sounds almost effortless with the RYTM. They’re both great machines though I do hope the RYTM gets more synthesis options in the future (more engines, LFOs, EQ per sample / synth) etc.

Speaking of which, using the MD as a synth is also a whole new world too. Pretty wild sounds can be coaxed out of it. I was playing with the HH on the EFM engine the other day and made this amazingly sharp synth. Quality.

EX/

CH3OH · 2014-10-10T10:58:43.000Z

Speaking of frequencies, which one will perform better at 40 Hz mark ? I’m really interested in lowest end possible.

audiotonomy · 2014-10-10T13:32:14.000Z

""CH3OH"":

Speaking of frequencies, which one will perform better at 40 Hz mark ? I’m really interested in lowest end possible.

AR rules the roost at bottom frequencies. It’s mad

G0n35y · 2014-10-28T14:43:08.000Z

Glad I spotted this thread. In the market for a hardware drum machine and headed to my local shop to try out the AR. They had the AR, A4 and MD out for jamming on so I went for it on all 3 for half an hour or so.

Initial thought - bearing in mind I was just working through a handfull of presets, the MD seemed more “immediate” to me. I love the sort of 80s drum vibes and I mustve fluked the perfect kit for it as it had me cheesing. The AR was a lot of fun but I def needed more time on it to get my head round some of the bits and bobs. Both running together sounded excellent though. I guess with just the AR you could create a similar vibe with samples and things but the half hour of fun I had hasnt made it any easier to make a choice.

It’s a shame there is so many four to the floor demos of both out there. It’s what Elektron gear excels at I suppose but not really my cup of tea. Much prefer seeing people experiment with different, slower, styles

G0n35y · 2014-10-28T14:43:51.000Z

Experimenting like this actually!

Huno · 2014-10-28T15:02:11.000Z

I just came from London, I tried an Rytm, it’s good, sounds cute and all, if you are already using it, try layering samples with it, I’ve had my MD UW + for like 6 months or no…no, I guess I bought it when they released RYTM or 2 months before I don’t remember.

BUT, the MD in synth terms it’s great, you have FM, you can resample the inside of the maschine, and well the engines are based in FM machines, oldschool x0x machines, noise, sine and pulse machines, physical machines, those can great preety crazy and harmonic too.

You can evenly use the MD for melodic shit, but it’s tricky, but not difficult, it’s a great machine.

Huno · 2014-10-28T15:04:04.000Z

""dubathonic"":

Not discontinued, they’re still being made. But it’s true they are essentially finished in terms of OS development … we shouldn’t expect new features.

Oh yeah, that’ hurts…I’m pretty sure a lot of things can be added but well the machine already is limitless in sound capacities, so meh, What ever, the interface is good too…