Rytm OS 1.32 speculation

OK, got cha… Check out “sound locks” if you haven’t already, might help you out a little bit and save some time, but won’t get you fully to where you want to go…

Edit: After reading the second post I didn’t look back to the first to see you had mentioned sound pool…:hushed:

Yup as said in the first post, a kind of global default per track sound lock setting would be a nice step in the right direction for this.
That way I would not have to copy/paste the sound locked trig over and over and would make the whole process a LOT easier

EDIT, also there is some very bad clipping and strange overlapping that happens with sound locks.
For example if you sound lock a trig and then change the filter on the track, not the trig, it will play the default sound and the sound locked trig at the same time, also combined with scene changed this will produce clipping and other artifacts.

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this is impossible … but you may find that the random combination of live variations of track sound combined with p-locks and sound locks on a track will produce undesirable sonic effects, but there’s zero chance that the voice will be ‘stacked’, it will simply be varied

This is the issue I talk about,
What you hear first is a slock trig, the trig I add and remove after is a normal trig
All I do is move the filter frq and change scenes.
The filter change seems to be that the change to the original sound which is not playing at all (is never triggered) and the slock trig somehow interact with one another.
The scene change clipping I have no idea, but that one is pretty bad for this workflow, only one of the scenes is actually programmed to do anything, the rest are just empty nothings, still it causes clipping.

To me it seems that the sound lock is triggered and when you move the cutoff it jumps from where it is locked in the sound lock and sweeps the audio triggered from the sound lock only to jump back again once the sound lock is trigged again. I don’t believe this has anything to do with the regular trig that’s not there because the sound is not heard on step 3 where the trig was, but rather when you move the knob…
It actually seems normal to me, but you probably don’t want to hear that…

As for the scenes I don’t know but my mind gravitates toward maybe an empty scene sets in the current parameter pages which then jump to the sound lock settings and jump back to current when empty scene is pressed again and an amp or filter setting is causing a click, I don’t know… But you are jumping between empty scenes which in real use there’s no reason to do that…

Just my observations…

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Thing is, the filter I am adjusting is the filter of the tracks normal/base sound, which has or should have nothing to do with the sound locked sound… In my mind the filter should have no effect at all, and you can hear the sound does not actually change, because it’s affecting silence. But additionally what is does is this weird interaction thing.
If I want to change the filter of the sound locked sound I have to hold the trig down to plock it.
EDIT…
Well actually ofc it does this because otherwise pure plocks, trigs without sound locks would never work… Facepalm

The scene thing, yeh it makes sense if you would switch from an active scene to a NULL scene, the instant change in setting could induce a click. But going from NULL to NULL doing this makes no sense at all to me.It also only does this when playing with sound locks, so it’s possibly just a limitation of using sound locks

And remember it’s all the same analog voice and the filter knob is real time control of an analog filter so if any sound is happening at all, moving the cutoff will affect the sound…

With the scenes my theory(might be wrong) is you are going from null to null, but the sound lock keeps retriggering changes too which then get nulled after an empty scene press… If you think about it, parameter locks, sound locks, and scenes aren’t so different, they all affect the same parameters of a real time analog signal…

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I think you want something it doesn’t do, sounds are saved to kits, not patterns.
Maybe it’s time to change your workflow to match the instruments ability.
Seems to me the easiest solution is versioning up your kits.
PatternA - Kit001
PatternB - Kit002

Lets say you make 3 versions of a kit, and all the sudden you want to change the snare on one, plus the others.
Change the snare, copy and paste it to the other kits, save your kits.

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Yeah, the only way a pattern affects a sound is with Parameter-Locks. Besides mapping a parameter lock type and value to a kit, there is no relation.

It can by using the sound pool, to theoretically it is possible to make this easier to work with if the system allows for it.
I see nothing wrong with asking to add to the abilities of a machine, already having adapted my workflow to it and wishing to enhance it.

And yes, I use a system right now where I save a kit per pattern by default, but this will by default destroy all the power you get by having a shared kit.
I am hoping for a better solution and find a middle ground, which for now seems to be just manually programming in sound locks to grab the sound variations from the pool.

Maybe so, but if you learn the copy/paste commands into your muscle memory, copying/pasting sounds and settings pages becomes a breeze. Elektron boxes aren’t perfect (what box is?), but I am very grateful we have copy/paste for almost everything.

Furthermore, does any system even exist which does what you describe? ie. having a kit but still being able to “bypass kit settings” for a certain part/passage, without resorting to automation?

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I am not asking to bypass automation, I asked for a track level default sound pool setting, so every trig I punch in on said track will automatically get set to the desired slock setting.

So which machine has a working example of this? Curious…

I am not sure I explained myself correctly, I meant that slocks already exist for the rytm, depending on the systems programming a track level default could be an easy addition.

I don’t follow your question about a machine that already does what I asked for, I mean I can do it with a daw ofc, but I don’t see the point of this comparison.

A bit confusing because currently the default track sound is accomplished by loading a sound to the track and just using regular trigs…

I am following you though and it seems you would want:
-The current parameter settings for regular trigs (as is now)
-Sound locks override current settings on a per step basis (as is now)
-An additional master default sound lock override that locks in a certain sound to all trigs and overrides the above, which would be tied to the pattern and not the kit

There’s more things to think about like what happens to the parameter pages at that point? Do they do nothing because the sound is overridden? Do they work in between trigs but snap back like it is now? Do they reflect the master override sound so you can still change it and revert to last current settings when toggled off? Can the third method work if the override is part of the pattern and not the kit? Scene and performance interactions? Etc…

It’s a complicated machine, just trying to help think through your request…

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-An additional master default sound lock override that locks in a certain sound to all trigs and overrides the above, which would be tied to the pattern and not the kit

Yes, but the other way around, the default setting would just be the default initial setting of new trigs, you can ofc just override the default state by setting the trigs to something else.
Everything else would work just as it does now, all that this would do in my mind is simply automatically set your newly pushed in trigs to said state.
Would it override settings for trigs that are already in existence in a given pattern? Yes, unless the trigs have poollocks set already.

In more detail.
parameter pages at that point? Do they do nothing because the sound is overridden?
Plocks are not touched by this idea, only the Lock that changes the sound pool selection, I will call this a poollock
Poollocks that are already set would also not get touched, only if they are not manually set and are in their default state would this thing affect it.

Do they work in between trigs but snap back like it is now?
Like now, it would only affect newly painted trigs, simply immediately setting their state to track level state (TLS) upon creation.

Do they reflect the master override sound so you can still change it and revert to last current settings when toggled off?
Not sure I get this question, but I will try to answer:)
I see it as a default state for new trigs, so if you push in a new trig it will have the TLS you set,
if you remove the trig and paint it again it will have the TLS,
if you paint a trig, adjust the poollock, it will have the poollock you set on that trig.
if you paint a trig, adjust the poollock, remove the trig, and repaint it, it will have the TLS.

Can the third method work if the override is part of the pattern and not the kit? Scene and performance interactions? Etc…
All would be as is now in this regard, which as far as I can see is that scene and performance just overrides everything pretty much atm.

Thorough explanation :smiley: . When I was saying “they” in those questions I was referring to the current parameter page settings though, but it’s all good…

I guess I’ll mention that when thinking about this I thought about a toggle that separates a track from kits so that track remains however it is wherever you go… That way you’d switch through kits to have your changing elements, but your toggled tracks that you’ve been tweaking will remain… If you like a new element and want to keep it, toggle it, tired of an old one, untoggle it!

Just ideas, I should probably duck out of this topic now… :ecstatic:

One thing I would love (maybe it’s there already but I had very limited time with Rytm before I shipped it back) is to have different pad colors on the “Mute” page. Green for active/populated tracks and Red for empty ones. Or different color intensity at least.

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What I mean is, do you have an example of a system (vsti or hardware), that works the way you describe? My point is that while having what you propose might be great, it might also mess up the worklfow and cause extra confusion in operating the machine.

Nothing comes to mind, I don’t know of any other hardware system that works similar to Rytm, the system that allows trig’s to set Sound Locks, selecting stored sounds from the pool. For Vst’s it seems pointless to add because you have a DAW.

Messing up the workflow, I doubt it, nothing would change if you don’t use it. (Which would mean setting the then new Default Trig Sound Lock setting to something other than default)
Extra confusion, maybe if you use it by accident? But so does any other setting like Legacy FX Send etc.

The idea, simply put, is to put a Default Trig Sound Lock setting in the Trigs Menu

You can already store per track quantization, so maybe this could also house Default Trig Sound Lock.
If untouched it just does as normal,

If you change it, then trigs that have no Sound Locks set would use this new Default Trig Sound Lock instead.