RYTM needs better Hihat Machines

Schnork · 2021-07-26T11:05:23.014Z

I guess the reason why many users were/are underwhelmed by Rytm hats is basically expectation. I myself was obsessed with 808 hats fifteen years ago. Ten years ago, I started to obsess over 606 hats. Five years ago, I got into 909s mainly. TRs (and other Roland/Boss machines) are everywhere. Then there’s MFB and Jomox and I guess Elektron wanted to do their own thing. The Rytm sound is its own thing, but maybe TR hats are stuck to deep in our ear canals?

There is something special about the TRs in general, if someone brings a 909 kick in the mix, chances are it will just fit. Same for the other TR voices, so they’re stuck for good reason…Rytm hats ain’t bad, tho!

garfield · 2021-07-26T15:07:32.507Z

With a bit of finesse I think they’re perfectly usable. If you really take your time to experiment and learn where the sweet spots are for you, they’re actually quite good hats, especially with a little bit of support from a sample. But I do think you have a point with the prevalence of the TR sounds, I think you have to think outside that box a bit to find what you like in the Rytm hats.

buzzerd · 2021-07-28T13:53:33.309Z

I’m thinking most people’s references to certain sounds are assumed to be direct from the machine and no post production. 808 sounds way better recorded than the machine did directly. Using filters to shape the machines is a must so it mixes better but that was a long journey.

NathanDJ · 2021-07-28T14:26:37.907Z

nah the toms come 1st, and also just a couple more options for a short snappy kick

Octagonist · 2021-07-28T14:59:22.850Z

NathanDJ:

short snappy kick

Yes. I’d like one with a deeper initial transient (if that’s even possible, wavelengths being what they are).

Stoss · 2021-07-28T15:22:35.713Z

My favorite HiHats have been made using the noise engine or the cymbal engine. That being said, I’ve read some comments in here about using the filter along with LFO modulation of it to find the character you are after. I went back and revisited some of the sounds I’ve made using the HiHat engine and I was surprised to see that I didn’t use any filter at all on them and no modulation. The reason I was surprised was because I had discovered how vital the Filter, LFO, and Overdrive are for shaping kicks, snares, and many other sounds and why I had not yet applied that thinking to the HiHats is beyond me. I think I may have been trying to save the filter to use as a thinning effect within a performance macro. In any case, I am now inspired to sit with the Rytm again and really dive back into some HiHat sound design.

This is actually a really great reminder for me and for anyone who might be trying to create sounds exclusively using the analog engines (which I have dedicated myself to over the last year and a half). The use of the FILTER, OVERDRIVE, and LFO as well as creative use the AMP Envelope settings has been critical to finding the sweet spot that I’m looking for… particularly when I’m trying to emulate another device’s sounds. I mean, it is critical to the level that not using them leaves me super disappointed with the sounds I’m getting out of the Rytm. This is actually kind of odd, because it makes the Rytm a very abstract piece of gear with an unintuitive path to finding those sweet spots. Your expectation is that you should be able to dial in the sound you like using an analog engine and then use all of those pieces to effect it afterwards. But really, you need to be moving between all of these parameters continually and integrating them in the process of messing with the analog sound engine to find what you are after.

So, as far as sound engines go… taking the time to dive into each engine, understand what is happening with each parameter and how that affects the sound, and then memorizing that to the level that you can intuitively pick which sound engine to use… that’s a lot of work. I mean, I’d always welcome new analog engines, but I think I’m going to try out some filter modulation on my HiHats first.

Airyck · 2021-08-03T05:22:19.805Z

I definitely use filter modulation on my Analog Hats which helps to shape them over time (which is needed I think).

Most of how I make them sound good though is by having a slower attack on the Amp envelope and Filter Envelope when it makes sense. This can mess up the timing/tightness of the rhythm though so I usually shift the trigs back a little with microtiming adjustments once I like the sound.

thermionic · 2021-08-03T05:30:08.533Z

I really can’t believe how long it took me to realize that a “nice” rhythm can be made a lot stankier by adjusting envelopes well after you have a sound you like. The nice thing about rediscovering equipment you’ve put aside for a year or so with fresh ears and growth in process.

Octagonist · 2021-08-03T15:22:44.705Z

This sounds like some black belt magic I don’t even know if my ears would hear. Will have to try it.

thermionic · 2021-08-03T15:33:36.093Z

Octagonist:

I don’t even know if my ears would hear.

That’s the cool thing, adjusting the envelopes is much more subtle than altering the microtiming or shifting the entire pattern left or right.

It’s great for creating “space” between each track in a way I didn’t consider when focusing solely on how “snappy” or “lazy” each sample/synth track was in isolation.

The interplay is gr8 and takes me beyond sound design into if not humanized, more pleasing and “natural” territory. Things that sound cool in isolation need tweaking to interact with each other.

It’s probably super obvious but I think it’s improved my mixing and beatmaking.

Bloop · 2021-08-03T20:11:09.306Z

Airyck:

use filter modulation

Yeah I also find filter mod to be a very important part of the hats character. With limited source parameters, this is really what defines the sound.

I almost always use the bandstop filter with env or lfo mod, adds some natural phasey motion like you hear when real cymbals are hit

garfield · 2021-08-04T18:18:24.618Z

Totally. It’s easy to forget that groove/rhythm isn’t only based on when the note is played- but also how long that note is played for. It’s obvious in the scope of melodic instruments but it’s just as important for percussive sounds. Arguably MORE important, because changing the envelope of such a short sound has an affect on the timbre, almost in a psychological way rather than a literal one…

thermionic · 2021-08-04T18:43:48.145Z

Definitely, negative space holds a rhythmic “glue” and helps us know how to move.

Airyck · 2021-08-04T18:49:13.243Z

Yes, I love to use the notch filter for that phasey stuff! You can really get a hat to fit with the other elements like that. Just like when you EQ out the frequencies of one sound to make room for the others. Also just for more organic less boring stuff too

Airyck · 2021-08-04T19:05:32.239Z

garfield:

Arguably MORE important, because changing the envelope of such a short sound has an affect on the timbre, almost in a psychological way rather than a literal one…

Definitely! The attack of a sound is extremely important to our ability to recognize different sounds and determining the timbre of a sound imo.

It also can have a huge affect on a groove and the mix engineering of sounds.

While not a hat sound, bass can be made to work playing at the same time as a kick (house music for example) by increasing the attack of the amp envelope so that the punch of the kick comes through before the bass fades in. It’s subtle but it means you don’t need sidechain compression to have the bass and kick play (seemingly) at the same time.

For the AR hat sounds I find that the longer attack gets rid of a lot of the harshness that I think puts people off from them.

loopdude · 2021-09-11T16:50:03.483Z

Somebody recently posted a sound pack for the rytm with really nice soft hats that use only the analog machines. Can’t find it. Can anybody help?

videomusik · 2023-07-25T17:36:45.154Z

Borrowing a friend’s Rytm and was initially put off by the default sound of the hihats as well. Would be very interested in hearing if there is still Rytm owners out there that have good tips.

homealone · 2023-07-25T17:48:19.981Z

Tips:

Use the filter to cut frequencies (HP/BP mode).
The plain noise machine is actually very usable as a hat.
Some distortion can be useful.
LFO in audio range to various parameters, like volume for some AM.
Delay with very short time with a bit of modulation, can produce comb filtering to change the character.

homealone · 2023-07-25T18:30:40.875Z

Also you can get workable hat sounds from the cymbal machines.

orbax · 2023-07-25T19:28:22.691Z

yes, the hi hats are really weird. but like someone before me said the cymbals are ok. and the noise generator for short hats. I think that a cut at 10k via a daw is a must. plus another filter in the daw so you can shape it even further and a bitcrusher.

which is also cool if you sample a long cymbal from the rytm in the daw and then automate the rhythm with a utility in the volume.