Rytm and Tempest redundant?

FWIW:
I am not “shit at programming drums”.
In fact, I won 3rd place in the DSI sound design comp for programming drum sounds and some beats.
Pretty much any subtractive synth can make pretty decent or awesome drum sounds.if you know what you are doing. That’s not the point I (and others) are trying to make.
It’s a good synth, it’s a terrible DRUM MACHINE.[/quote]
3rd place really? i’m in awe!

A terrible DM? give me a break, “bad workman blames his tools” fits you perfectly

Got anything worth listening to of sounds and beats 100% of your own making?

Prove me wrong!

edited

edit

eh?

:wink:

I’m not convinced that your position will find much support here, as it is based on assumption, and presented in an aggressive and quite insulting way.

Cheers !
[/quote]
Yes was nasty but can you imagine the abuse that would flow if I were to post that the AR is crap and terrible at drums, etc etc
basucally a waste of money for any serious drum programmer?
I wouldnt, even if i was stupid enough to think that, its fine to not be able to use something to your liking,
it IS another thing to try to put it down on public forums.

If they cant articulate properly and just want to childishly slag gear off, then they should expect to get it back in their face.

I dont slag gear, I do get annoyed with it sometimes, as I just posted “bad workman blames his tools”
Simply I blame myself or other people if the music sounds bad.

thats just the way I think

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No one here is “slagging off” the Tempest.
It’s a good / fine / great synth.
What you seem to miss from the statements posted is that it’s not working out so great as a drum machine.
The distinguishing feature of a drum machine being that the interface is fine tuned for creating drum sounds.
The Tempest does not have that.
For example, there are no controls dedicated to adjusting the curve of an envelope, it has to be created manually in the mod matrix.
Which is fine, it’s easy enough to set up but being one of the most common and important routings for drum programming it would have been kinda nice if DSI had thought to include a control to access this from the front panel using a single knob.
It’s rather telling that the included presets (which I don’t use, but listened to) almost exclusively use the sample library to build beats. Why is that? Because it’s an excellent “drum synth” or because the synth doesn’t exactly lend itself to drum programming and tweaking?
The OP was soliciting comments. Some people love the Tempest, no doubt, but it’s also interesting that so far the bulk of the comments - from some very experienced Elektron users - have not been very positive.
But that’s enough from me, this post sums up the situation very well:

Not much has improved since that was written.

Nice rant!

Sure you can create great drum sounds on pretty much any halfway decent synth; it just takes a lot of effort before you even get to some bread and butter drum sounds compared with the immediacy and tweakability of a good dedicated drum machine.

The only thing that’s wrong with the Tempest is that it’s marketed as a “analog drum” machine instead of something like a “hybrid percussion” synth and sequencer.

If you labels something “analog drum”, then people will reasonably expect there to be some dedicated analog circuitry in there that’s more or less equivalent to the voice architecture of pretty much all the analog drum machines that came before.

That simply isn’t there on the Tempest.

For me Tempest didn’t fall short on sound. Once I get a few drums sounds I like, I am good to go for tons of songs.
It’s the 16 patterns per project, and the 8 event limitation per beat, that really stiffed me. No amount of “programming skills” is gonna fix that.
If one decides to sequence the Tempest from a sequencer offering banks of patterns, then you loose some things that make Tempest great, like roll and sequenced sliders.
The minimal midi implementation came way late, and the carrot dangling was rotten.
Touch Sliders are fun and all, but not always ideal, and the way that works on Tempest vs p-locks, elektron wins.
The highpass filter assigned to the sliders is more like and on/off toggle than a sliding of the parameter.
You cant save your work while Tempest is running.
The feedback L/R thing is kinda wack.
To add reverb or delay to individual sounds it’s necessary to go from the voice outs which requires a lot more outboard gear, especially if you want to do something that simulates p-locks. This is all great and fun when you have your mega space station rig set up at home. Not so fun to try and carry all that shit to a gig.
Oh yeah, and bugs, lots of strange bugs getting squashed and cropping up from blue moon updates.
I actually liked about 8 of the “drum samples” a lot, plus the waves.
However there were tons of stupid samples wasting space.
In the end it seems like to get the most out of Tempest, I’d think of it like a guitar. It’s very playable, but playing it will require both hands and your undivided attention.

I was avoiding watching AR demos when it was first mentioned, because I didn’t want to get derailed from all I had invested in the Tempest.
Once it came out, and I watched a few videos, I quickly realized it solved those desires in a small little box. So yeah, I sold my Tempest to get an AR.

1 Like

I know I’ve said this many times on many forums but it’s really hard to compare the AR and Tempest. I’ve had both and currently still have the Tempest. But I’m considering swapping it out for a Rytm again.

The AR is a great (and easy to use) sound engine with a complicated sequencer.

The Tempest is a complicated (and perhaps not great for drums) sound engine with an brilliant sequencer.

Workflow is completely dissimilar between the two. On the Tempest, creating beats is effortless, kind of MPC style. It is creating sounds that will occupy your time. The pads are glorious, big and responsive. You can capture real time performances perfectly but you gotta have some rhythm to do it. Step programming can be a bit of a faff, but it’s doable. It’s also a great synth that has tools like an arpeggiator and modulation matrix that can really be inspiring to use.

Downsides of the T is that it’s sound engine wasn’t designed for drums. DSI has compensated by adding a few hundred drum samples to make up for this and speed up the sound design process. However at it’s core it’s really not the best for analog drums. I can make better sounding analog kicks on a Microbrute.

As for the Rytm, Elektron pretty much hands you brilliant analog drum sounds on a silver platter with controls to make sensible tweaks, and even bend them into a wild aberration should you so choose. There’s a lot of possibility with standard Elektron flourishes like per-track pattern lengths and of course parameter locks.

However somehow the effects don’t sound quite as sweet as in the Analog Four. And frankly the pads suck. I found myself constantly having to go over things I recorded live and adjust velocity. The sequencer isn’t nearly as good at capturing realistic drum performances as the Tempest, which at 8 bars can have up to 32nd note resolution. Retrig is the only way around this on the Rytm, but the implementation is a pain in that it can’t be recorded in real time. So if you want some snare flams or rolls you’re gonna be manually p-locking retrigs on each step and they will have a fixed velocity.

Ultimately both are simultaneously within reach of brilliance, but also kind of a let down. Both are a bit of a laugh when it comes to MIDI, though the Tempest really takes the cake here. There is simply no way to send chromatic data to more than one voice at a time, and no per-part CC whatsoever.

The Tempest is brilliant as a 6 voice 4 oscillator synth and the sequencer is terrific and super fun to play, but it’s let down by the fact that you don’t have a lot of the tools to really create great drum sounds. (no noise, no sine wave, no sample import, no purpose built “machines”).

The Rytm is a fantastic drum synth with some really cool performance possibilities. But it’s let down by the crude sample controls (i.e. no independent eq/filter), weak FX, and it’s pads/sequencer.

TL;DR: I would say they’re NOT redundant. But perhaps not complementary in the way you’d think. Either an A4 to add synth or a MPC-1000 to add better real-time playability would probably be better. The Tempest falls short on MIDI control and synthesis; not brilliant as a tonal synth and not brilliant as a drum synth.

If you can afford it get it. The tempest is a dope piece. I don’t understand why people hate on it. Especially if you already have the rytm I feel they’ll compliment each other. I regret getting rid of mine. The tempest excels at live performance. The sounds are warm and organic the preloaded samples are run of the mill but again there’s enough sound shaping tools to make what you want. It’s a high quality instrument for sure.

This is what I’m talking about, someone who can articulate an informed position without overly demeaning the gear. :+1:

So when someone says something as stupid as “the Tempest is shit drum machine”,
I reply in turn with “sorry, no you’re a shit drum machine programmer” :-1:

Its not like its a “g0d” given right that you are any good with this stuff and there are many people with limited experience
and/or limited skills out there passing comments that have no merit. :sleepy:

Now if anyone who says the T is a shit DM wants to challenge me into a “dick waving” contest, PM me please,
its unsightly and crude to do it in the public domain…and anyway you’ll lose… :astonished:

And cheers to those who love both :heart:

Even though I mostly agree with what @natrixgli posted above, I have one additional remark about the sequencer in the AR.

It’s important to keep in mind that the sequencer on the AR is a step sequencer, and not a “traditional” sequencer for MIDI events like you’d find on an MPC in your DAW.

Elektron should maybe be a bit more explicit about this in its marketing material and documentation; the real time recording that’s available on the newer boxes and the marketing of the Analog Keys as an “analogue workstation” might have confused some people in this regard.

IMHO the AR (and the A4/AK) most certainly offers one of the best step sequencer implementations available today.

What you’ve done is slag of people who you don’t know, and have no idea of their skill level. No idea. None!
Yet you think you have the right to call us “shit at programming drums”.
It’s people like you who turn good forums like this in to places where people with skill and who are interested in facts and technical discussion are no longer interested in participating.
Why bother if other users are going to slag you off?
Sorry, but you have been an utter prick in this conversation.
There is no other way to put it.

What you’ve done is slag of people who you don’t know, and have no idea of their skill level. No idea. None!
Yet you think you have the right to call us “shit at programming drums”.
It’s people like you who turn good forums like this in to places where people with skill and who are interested in facts and technical discussion are no longer interested in participating.
Why bother if other users are going to slag you off?
Sorry, but you have been an utter prick in this conversation.
There is no other way to put it.[/quote]
it is actually very easy to work out peoples skill levels
its when they slag great equipment
its just that simple.

why dont you get the proven “bad workman blames his tools” ?
did you bother to read 'natrilixs" post? thats how you voice an opinion.

you know what is really funny?
i was doing the similar with the MnM many years ago
as so many were posting rubbish about how crap it sounded, blah blah etc etc.

i am, as always, willing to back up my posts

You would have a point, if you knew for certain that people posting here are “bad workman”.
But you don’t know that. In fact, I know that some of the people in this thread are actually very good at working with synths because I’ve seen and heard their work.
Therefore, I can know with absolute certainty these two things:

  1. You don’t know what you are talking about
  2. You are being a prick for sake of being a prick

Let’s just ignore the pricks and focus on the people who actually take the time to write down their experience using these tools.

I just read all the posts in this thread from top to bottom, and I think it’s fair to say that the people with the strongest opinion (and the most emoticons) are once again pretty clearly the ones who took the least effort to actually explain and describe their experience using the gear the original poster at the top of the thread asked about…

I’d say checkout something like the Vermona mrk 3 especially if you want a different take, much more organic sound.

I don’t think you can have too many drum machines by of the fun factor.

I had the Vermona, but have my eye on a 522 but most likely the Tanzbar , I’ll also have sampled and synth drum from the new electribes!

If not that I may get some eurorack modules and the new TipTop seq, I’d like to do that most, but that would get expensive fast.

As for the Tempest, I have the impression from a lot of what I have read on the net, it is a superb machine with great playability.

But…you need to be able to understand drum synthesis to a good level.

You can make most things work for you with commitment.

You would have a point, if you knew for certain that people posting here are “bad workman”.
But you don’t know that. In fact, I know that some of the people in this thread are actually very good at working with synths because I’ve seen and heard their work.
Therefore, I can know with absolute certainty these two things:

  1. You don’t know what you are talking about
  2. You are being a prick for sake of being a prick[/quote]
    hahaha yeah i dont know what i’m talking about, and yes i will be a prick to some,

you work out which one is ironic and which one is true.

as i’ve asked,

there is only one way to prove you know what you’re talking about,

this is not about other people here as you try to make out

REPRESENT (to use an ol hiphop term)

otherwise STFU

To be fair to ZPH, he’s generated some of the better go-to kick patches on the Tempest (for the styles I work in at any rate).

He does know what he’s doing when it comes to sound design.