Roli Seaboard Rise

michaeljk1963 · 2024-06-23T13:49:41.264Z

I wouldn’t give up on using your Rise with the Hydrasynth. If the Rise can be mapped to all of the MPE dimensions of Equator 2, it should be able to be mapped to all the mod capabilities of the Hydrasynth. This is fairly easy to do with Linnstrument and Push 3’s MPE capabilities on the Hydrasynth, so I would guess it can be done on the Rise too. I am looking forward to using my Osmose with the Hydrasynth, Cobalt, and Iridium at some point when I get my studio back up and running.

SirAdrianFish · 2024-06-23T14:29:36.988Z

g3o2:

Does Rise 2’s docs come with a MIDI implementation chart?

Unfortunatly there is no MIDI implementation chart to be found for Roli Seaboard Rise2 o Roli Equator2, which would make thinks a lot easier. But the dokumentation on Roli devices is rather poor.

g3o2 · 2024-06-23T14:30:42.225Z

MIDI mode:

The three Touch Faders send MIDI CC messages, assignable using ROLI Dashboard, which can be used to control synth parameters in Equator2 or other instruments/effects.

In both Expression Mode and MIDI Mode, the XY touch pad controls the X and Y macro parameters in Equator2 and ROLI Studio Player. These macro parameters are preconfigured to change the synth preset in a creatively interesting way.

Perhaps use a MIDI monitor tool to find out what cc’s the xy touch pad and faders send ? Hydrasynth does allow you to assign cc’s to control its macro knobs btw, via its mod matrix.

For MPE dimensions, check HS’s mod matrix sources: MPE-Z, MPE-Yabs (or Yrel if you wish), MPE-Z, Velo On, Velo Off.
MPE-X is assigned by default to pitch and MPE-Z is internally mapped to polyAT. For X you may have to align both devices’ pitch bend range (see voice parameters page 2). I think HS is 24 semitones max. So if your Roli was set to 48 semitones, you would have to reduce Rise’s bend range to 24.

SirAdrianFish · 2024-06-23T14:36:25.504Z

michaeljk1963:

I wouldn’t give up on using your Rise with the Hydrasynth.

As already writen, they work together, but there is a limited funktionality.

michaeljk1963:

If the Rise can be mapped to all of the MPE dimensions of Equator 2, it should be able to be mapped to all the mod capabilities of the Hydrasynth.

I don’t know how it works on the Linnstrument and Push 3, but there is a tool called Roli Dashboard to configure the Seaboard Rise 2, but it seems to have its limitations:

image640×394 31.1 KB

g3o2 · 2024-06-23T14:40:42.563Z

Set dashboard’s pitch bend range to 24, then HS’s pitch will respond correctly without further ado. Use MPE-Yabs or cc74 as mod source on the HS to respond to Rise’s vertical slide - you’ll have to define the destination yourself. I’d advise you to use HS macro knobs as destination. For the touch pad and faders, use a MIDI monitoring tool to get those cc numbers - they are probably fixed and can’t be changed within the dashboard app.

MPE / 5 Dimensions / 5D Touch

Strike → HS Velo On

Technically speaking this refers to note-on velocity MIDI message

Press → HS MPE-Z

Technically speaking this refers to polyphonic aftertouch or channel pressure MIDI message

Glide → HS MPE-X

Technically speaking this refers MIDI pitch bend value on a given MIDI channel

Slide → HS MPE-Yabs (or MPE-Yrel if the Rise supports it)

Technically speaking this refers to Y-axis input from the RISE, inputted as MIDI Control Change Message (CC 74 by default — configurable using ROLI Dashboard)

Lift → HS Velo off

Technically speaking this refers to note-off velocity MIDI message

One note on Hydrasynth presets: many of them have polyAT assigned to a filter or amp LFO. Oftentimes, this is pointless with MPE because your finger pressure can introduce such movement naturally. In the mod matrix you would have to delete the corresponding polyAT source to LFO dest slot. MPE-Z is more useful to adjust sound volume and brightness directly without LFO and perhaps at the same time (2 slots needed). But of course, use anything you like

SirAdrianFish · 2024-06-23T14:57:49.596Z

Thank you, I will have a go at it, as far as I can follow.

I just noticed, the picture of the Roli Dashboard is one of an older version. I will post one of the new version later on. On the new version you can select a cc range for the Touchpad and Touchfaders, allthough this did not work for the Audiothingis Micromonsta2.

g3o2 · 2024-06-23T15:01:07.297Z

The Hydrasynth is so flexible, it responds to almost everything. It is a modulation beast. Suddenly, you will realise how convenient the Equator 2 is because everything is already set up vs you having to configure sounds for MPE yourself. However, the Hydra sounds pretty great and weird in MPE mode.

SirAdrianFish · 2024-06-23T15:31:20.142Z

This is the latest version of Roli Dashboard, showing the default settings which work perfectly with Equator2.

image3840×2063 450 KB

g3o2:

It is a modulation beast. Suddenly, you will realise how convenient the Equator 2 is because everything is already set up vs you having to configure sounds for MPE yourself.

I would think so. Configuring is not a problem when you know how and what to to. But for now I am lacking this knowledge…

g3o2 · 2024-06-23T16:00:35.668Z

On the Hydrasynth you need to learn how to modify a preset’s mod matrix so that it can be set to respond to your Rise’s MPE control messages.

So now I understand that your main issue is actually about setting up an MPE sound source: Hydrasynth is an MPE-capable sound source but its presets are not pre-set to respond to all of MPEs dimensions by default. That’s because there are many kinds of MPE controllers.

That work has to be done by you and Roli dashboard can only give you the tools (the cc numbers beyond HS’s MPE parameters mentioned here above). Equator is optimised for Rise 2 but not so Hydrasynth. The latter is optimised for its own control interface. It appears that the task of adapting the Rise 2 to Hydrasynth would fall into your hands. You will manage

Btw with the Linnstrument I have to do exactly the same. There is no auto-magic in the MPE world, yet.

Jukka · 2024-06-23T17:02:18.894Z

It isn’t even a MPE thing per se. The XY pad, pedals, and touch fader messages are sent on the global channel ( often set to Channel 1 – zero in raw hex ). They are global messages.

But same deal, those CCs needs to be hooked to something in the sound generator to do anything.

I like breaking things down to the basics, using some sort of MIDI monitor, to actually see the bits and bytes, when something is not working.

There was discussion recently in the MPE Controller thread, about the different strengths and styles of the various confirmation of a range of MPE controllers. The RISE 2 has a definite manner of expression, as you can see from the videos i have put above in this thread. The MPE synth, can have an individual “sound” as well.

I think the Rise 2 and the Hydrasynth make a very good pairing.

g3o2 · 2024-06-23T17:23:18.339Z

Hydrasynth pairs effortlessly with any MPE controller. I also agree that every MPE controller influences the sound sound source in a way that can make the latter sound unique. And yes, obviously the faders and xy pad are global and will control all voices at the same time and in the same way - and, as you and I have both mentioned, they still need to be configured in the mod matrix

PS if only there was a Hydrasynth micro, half the size of the desktop, then I would buy it as an MPE sound source again.

SirAdrianFish · 2024-06-23T21:19:27.197Z

OK, so I have been playing around with the cc setup this evening - with moderate success. I guess I am doing something wrong or I am overseeing something.

So far I have not able to assign the Seaboard Rise 2 Preset Browser to the Hydrasyth. But this problem occures to all hardware synths I have tryed so far.

I changed the value of the pitch bend range, from 48 to 24 which does not make any difference.

I assigned the X axis from the Touchpad to cc 01 (Modulation wheel) which worked, but I could not assign any value to the y axis.

I could assign cc 111 (OSC 1 Cent) to the left Touchfader (Press), but it was not possible to assign any other value to the left and mid Touchfader.

In Equator2 the three Touchfaders are assignd to the functions Glide, Slide and Press and control the intensitiy, which makes sens and works fine, but does not seem to be possible in any other mpe hardware synth I use.

g3o2 · 2024-06-23T21:36:21.995Z

SirAdrianFish · 2024-06-24T19:01:53.451Z

For someone who might be watching and wondering…

For some reason in the Mod Matrix Assign menu on my hydrasynth desktop (with MPE enabled ofc), it has MPE-X, MPE-Yabs and MPE-Yrel, but not “MPEOff-VC” which I see is in the menu on yours. It means I can’t edit the way my patches interact with what Roli calls “lift”.

MPE velocity release is the same as velocity off labeled in the mod matrix as “Velo Off”

g3o2 · 2024-06-24T19:34:53.337Z

Velo Off should work, in the same manner as Velo On. It is already per note, hence no need for an MPE variety. That’s why there is no MPE-Z but only polyAT - which is technically wrong because polyAT is on one channel only (but can probably be split by note eadily) while channelAT is per channel (as defined in MPE). Anyway, in the end it is all syntactic sugar, same for Roli’s or Expressive E’s creative designations for expressive gestures …

Jukka · 2024-06-24T19:36:50.069Z

Arturia Polybrute (All Models)

Just reporting in to say that controlling the PB6 with a Roli Seaboard is game changing.

Sounds like a great combination.

This has been a topic here for a couple days – whether the Rise works well with other MPE hardware seems to have been in doubt. Good to hear that it works so well.

SirAdrianFish · 2024-06-24T19:58:09.584Z

Jukka:

This has been a topic here for a couple days – whether the Rise works well with other MPE hardware seems to have been in doubt. Good to hear that it works so well.

I was not questioning the functionality of MPE on the Seaboard Rise 2 itself. The problem is that varous (MIDI) functions (Preset Browser, Touchpad, Touchfader) on the Seaboard Rise 2 don’t work as expected or do not work at all with three different hardware-synths. At least I can’t get them to work the way I would expect them to.

Jukka · 2024-06-24T20:32:27.739Z

SirAdrianFish:

Very dissapointing. You can work with it and it is great fun with those functions that work, but had I known about those limitations in combination with hardware synths, I would have bought any another hardware controller.

I misunderstood. I thought you were saying that the Rise wasn’t working well with hardware synths and that you were disappointed with it.

g3o2 · 2024-06-24T21:06:22.107Z

It would have been the same experience with any other MPE controller. MPE and MIDI in general are still quite technical topics. Not the best to begin with I guess.

SirAdrianFish · 2024-06-24T22:04:32.647Z

Jukka:

I misunderstood. I thought you were saying that the Rise wasn’t working well with hardware synths and that you were disappointed with it.

SirAdrianFish:

I was not questioning the functionality of MPE on the Seaboard Rise 2 itself. The problem is that varous (MIDI) functions (Preset Browser, Touchpad, Touchfader) on the Seaboard Rise 2 don’t work as expected or do not work at all with three different hardware-synths. At least I can’t get them to work the way I would expect them to.

What else can I write… ?