if you look at the waveform when the EXT SOURCE is red, you can see it digitally clips at about -6db from the inputs… I’ve made several videos showing this and wrote about it in the SP404 mk2 guide. I cannot account for every circumstance, but from my experience EXT SOURCE going red is not a warning, it is a signal that you are digitally clipping. To what extent, it is harder to say, and you can obviously digitally clip a “tiny bit” and basically not hear it, as a small amount of digital clipping (which is still digital clipping) may not significantly alter your audio signal, or may have a somewhat pleasing tonal change.
And yes… since it digitally clips at a lower volume level (again around -6db) you can still normalize to 0db, since the clip is happening at a lower db. When you normalize, it is still preserving the digital clip, and you can verify this by… again… looking at the digital waveform and seeing that it is flat at the digital clip.
Just trying to help provide the facts and things I have learned about the SP404 mk2 over the years. If you don’t believe me, it’s a pretty easy experiment to run… or think it sounds fine and don’t care that much… then that’s cool… if it sounds good it is good…
yeah that’s details … but it is not question of believing you or not, it is just the results of my own experiments, (and i’m not new in the game either).
If record clips systematically around -6db it should be impossible to get a sample that reach 0db without effects, but it is possible. I think it clips at 0db and then there is -6db reduction to leave room for effects.
okay, I guess we both agree on the end result, that EXT SOURCE turning red means you are digitally clipping your audio inputs… the math works out the same for the audio inputs regardless of the order of operations…
As @NearTao and @tomasoma have highlighted, there’s not really a clear consensus on this.
My own findings are that it’s 100% possible to trigger the Ext Source button red without introducing any clipping/squaring off of waves… I’d guestimate there’s about 2db of headroom from when you first trigger it to turn red to it actually clipping.
You said you’re recording guitars, this is another reason I personally wouldn’t worry too much about hitting the red… I don’t think you’d notice it if it’s occassional… but I wouldn’t recommend your input ‘living’ in the red.
I’d also add because it ‘squares off’, it makes the results usable… it’s not like proper digital clipping where it’s an obvious error.
Yeah, it’s odd and almost temperamental! I’ll fire up my guitar rig which was prefect previously and immediately hit red when I start playing. Then it won’t do it again!
I agree with you that its pretty ambiguous in the manual compared to last gen sps, which always told you that you want the red light flashing occasionally when sampling. I find the gain staging much trickier, I miss the old style peak lights.
Also the last gen sps clip pretty nicely to my ears, but doing the same sounds harsh for on the mkii
To expand on this it sounds like it’s hard clipping the signal with a ceiling of -6db (which sounds like a lot?) - if you want a nice hot sample and don’t care about losing a little dynamics then that’s actually a good thing. You will have a louder sample living in the red (not just higher volume).
If you care about dynamics and want to preserve your peaks then I’d steer well clear of the red. But if the ceiling is -6db then you’re leaving yourself with a lot of headroom.
Either way if that’s how it’s working you’re going to have no nasty digital artefacts, just clipping saturation.
Man I love this forum. Some great info and perspective. @NearTao the isolator method is really interesting. Going to explore that. @CCMP cheers for the additional thoughts. I’m going to do some experimenting.
Edit: I also kinda wish there was an option to +6db the ext in.
I did it y’all. I finally caved and bought a second MkII. Found one still in the box for $349. I’m gonna have one set up for my hyper focused mini setups I have planned. Where’s the SP Anonymous meetings at?
Yes, I’ve thought this too; having the option to MONITOR/hear the input at +6 or +9db and maintain the sampling/recording at the current level would be great.
I think this would/could open a can of worms though and cause more complexity…. How would it work when recording the mix, using the looper and using Mark Up, etc.
so it’s probably best left as is.
A menu option to ‘Normalize to -4db’ would be appreciated though… or a quick ‘Boost by 3db’ option alongside Truncate and Normalize.
Nah ! ext source turning red warns some db before clipping the audio input
OT
BTW your videos are good, i only watched a couple of them but neat trick well explained, very good for beginners ! i recommend them when it is relevant, instead of trying to explain with my limited english,
Best regards
Ok. I haven’t fully lost it. When that showed up I was like, how have I not seen this before. I didn’t realize it came with an update. Just assumed it was another thing I hadn’t learned yet on the SP.
spent a lot of time with the M8 lately, but suddenly had some nostaligia of my “sampling only era” and did this loop with Parliament in the SP, kick snare and hat from another old record, key chord from reface CP, and a bass line.
