Resonance bleed (ghost envelope?)

Hexeract · 2014-01-19T15:04:43.000Z

Has anyone else notice, with resonance only sounds like bass drums, that when you successively trigger them fast, the resonance slowly dies out until you can hear nothing.

Example: first kick, full power, next one, slightly less, less snap, then each following is quieter, as though there’s some ghost envelope reducing the amplitude of the sound secretly.

Only if i stop triggering the kick for a second or two am I able to make it come back full force.

This has been an issue with all my programmed kicks, with all presets, and downloaded sound packs.

I’d like to know if it’s is only my unit, or a flaw with the design of the A4 itself.

void · 2014-01-19T15:29:48.000Z

it is actually an algorithm inside the A4 which artificially prevents kicks from being any good.

i’s there so you’re forced to buy the new drum machine.

both “resonance bleed” & “ghost envelope” could be nice band names innit

/srsly: i find the resonance dying differs a lot between patches… kinda hit&miss with some, and consistent with others… dunno.

sicijk · 2014-01-19T15:53:55.000Z

maybe a silly Q, but have you tried to use as Filt Env the shapes that has a .dot. ?

invisible_acropolis · 2014-01-19T17:07:00.000Z

""Hexeract"":

Has anyone else notice, with resonance only sounds like bass drums, that when you successively trigger them fast, the resonance slowly dies out until you can hear nothing.

Example: first kick, full power, next one, slightly less, less snap, then each following is quieter, as though there’s some ghost envelope reducing the amplitude of the sound secretly.

Only if i stop triggering the kick for a second or two am I able to make it come back full force.

This has been an issue with all my programmed kicks, with all presets, and downloaded sound packs.

I’d like to know if it’s is only my unit, or a flaw with the design of the A4 itself.

make sure there is a ‘note off’ message before the next ‘note on’ message… typical analog monosynths dont retrigger the envelope if you play a key while still holding another key

btw - sidstation can has envelope ghost, instead of ghost envelope

billywood · 2014-01-20T14:34:42.000Z

""void"":

it is actually an algorithm inside the A4 which artificially prevents kicks from being any good.

i’s there so you’re forced to buy the new drum machine.

haha!

But seriously…

What’s interesting about the phenomenon is that the ‘bleed’ happens more with certain filter tuning and envelope settings than others.

Tempo also has a big effect. Try a playing a kick on steps, 1,5,9,13 then adjust the tempo a little. It may fade out at certain tempos but remain strong at others.

My best guess is that it’s all about phasing: depending on the tuning and tempo, the peaks of the self-oscillating filter can phase positively or negatively with the main oscillator sound. It’s more likely to happen with kick sounds as the shape of the oscillator is very similar to the shape of the self-oscillating filter (they’re usually both something approximating simple sine waves) - all it takes is for them to line up while one is postive and the other is negative and they partially/fully cancel each other out.

If this is what’s going on then the gradual fading out is the gradual lining up of the two waves into negative phasing. It should follow that the sound will fade back in again as the waves keep drifting against each other, then back out again and so on. If that doesn’t happen, then my theory is wrong!

If I’m right, then could it be solved in theory by somehow resetting the wave cycle of the filter, just like you can choose to retrigger the oscillators with each trigger? I don’t know how much this could be addressed by the OS, or how much of a priority that would be for Elektron (as per @void’s comment!).

sicijk · 2014-01-20T16:26:39.000Z

""sicijk"":

maybe a silly Q, but have you tried to use as Filt Env the shapes that has a .dot. ?

furthermore i will leave RTRG on for OSC2 second page as Billywood wrote and i’d disable the oscillator drift.
Plus the envelopes with dot , as above