Resale value of digi devices is fair to some and a bit low to others

Reality disproves your assertion.

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I don’t either. The signal/noise is the same as it ever was, just more of it.

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So sorry to hear you also seem to dislike music. My condolences!

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According to Wikipedia, the Prophet-5 was priced at $3,995 in 1977. Adjusting for inflation only would bring this to $21,412 in 2025. Happily, you can buy one for only $3,600.

We generally expect production costs, especially for technology, to reduce over time, too.

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II said I was gonna use the OGDT init sounds as a form of protest.

Need to mix it better (MPC Live 2 speakers only) but I need to wait a few days to regain objectivity with this one.

(not all drums are OGDT init sounds, but I did use some of them! For the first time :joy:)

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Even if we all agreed that the price of Mk 1 Digiboxes are too low, who would we look to blame?

Elektron for selling too many?
Too many people buying the original?
Elektron for releasing the Mk II versions?
The price of the Mk II versions?
The people selling the Mk 1 versions used?
The people people buying the used Mk 1 versions?

I’m not sure what’s disconcerting with the situation to be honest. It’s simply the reality with so many products.

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I absolutely hate when people talk about resale value, and financial value of music making tools as some sort of speculative investment. It’s awful.

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Iā€˜ve tried to explain above why I think this comparison with 80s prices is misleading when we’re discussing whether or not Elektron gear prices are rising above inflation.

(which in itself doesn’t need to be really discussed, since @Lizard-of-Oz has already shown that this isn’t really the case, I cited this post above.

Now this is a topic that seems more interesting to discuss imo: Is there a world in which Elektron has recouped the initial costs for development of DT and DN and processors or other parts have also become so much cheaper that they could have lowered their prices significantly instead of discontinuing them and releasing the IIs? Or just stopped coming up with new instruments after MD, MM or OT?

I think to assess that, we’d need to know more about the individual components that form the price of an Elektron instrument. My gut feeling is that the biggest factor would be the time spent by engineers and designers to come up with a new device and perfect it till it’s ready for release. Which mostly means paying people to be creative. Which isn’t a factor that can be reduced by technological leaps, except for when youā€˜d replace Elektronā€˜s engineers with AI, hoping it can design something just as well. Or Elektron stop coming up with new ideas. Judging from what people on this forum are mostly wishing, I don’t think just selling the same machine for decades like DSI is a recipe for success. But that’s to a big part because of their consumer base like us who always want the new and more powerful toy.

Buy used, play for free. A used Digitone and a used Octatrack is an incredibly powerful pair for like $1500 or $1600.

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Sold a MPC OG Live for $400 a few years back. By time shipping and fees went through I had under $350 coming my way.

It’s a bitch but I played that thing every night for a couple years with a smile! Considered it a win and in hindsight, wish that was my only problem these days!

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I am absolutely convinced it’s the exact opposite.

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Sorry to hear this. When I take a look at the recent history of electronic music, I understand that some of the most groundbreaking innovations in sound, which have come to define electronic music and without which we certainly wouldn’t be here on this forum, have come from lowered barriers to entry, for example cheaper prices on the failed (at first) early roland drum machines and bass synths, as well as the lower cost to entry in a sample-based workflow, whereby the artist does not need to have an invitation to a high end studio nor to employ many session musicians. Without techno and hip hop we would not have the same market within which to whinge about resale prices. Without the revolutions in music production’s transition to mobile and home studios, made entirely possible by lowering the cost of entry in the 80’s and 90’s, many of us may not be making music at all. I feel sorry for those so focused on emotional dissatisfaction with the certain abundance of subpar music in this algorithmically driven, commerically overtaken market that they think gatekeeping via the preservation of economic stratification is a viable and attractive solution.

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I love my OG digi, never stops to surprise me after 6 years. I change setup, workflow but somehow the digi still find its place.

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Something I’ve learned through my recent efforts at getting rid of stuff is that it’s overall just better to never buy anything.

Edit: more relevant to the thread maybe, on the flip side this means new comers have a lower barrier to entry for really nice gear. My MK1 A4 at $500 was very good for me but it sounds like bad for others.

Edit 2: Yes, it does suck selling stuff.

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When I’m 80 in my rocking chair I want to be sipping tea and churning out bangers with my OG DT on my lap.

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I don’t mind paying up for good gear, if i want it soon and i use it. Basically over time am I getting as much fun out of it per month as I pay for other things I enjoy, over the lifetime I use it for.

Equally, if stuff is selling off more cheaply, either a subsequent manufacturer discount, blowout or second hand market weakness, I like the idea of those who weren’t able to initially afford it, or who didn’t see value at the original price getting their hands on it.

Maybe I’ve just normalised myself, but the recent TE discounts didn’t bother me. I still think the OP1F and OPXY are just a joy to own and use and have zero regret that there was a subsequent sale price.

However, these price volatilities do teach you more generally to rationalise your purchasing more objectively.

I am now reluctant to purchase software synth / daw upgrades so often, I can wait between version 10 and 15 to see if I really need it. (though I do support keeping software and hardware companies in business, if justified)

One thing I would never say is that price is obscene. Price is what people are willing to offer or pay for items at. Simple as.

Housing prices for example aren’t themselves obscene, perhaps government policy is? i.e. that some people have way too much money compared to others, or a failure to provide new housing stock for families to live in.

Saying pricing is obscene implies to me that it should be controlled by regulation and I don’t buy that argument.

Anyway, end of my very interesting point :nerd_face:

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My point was only that it’s not as simple as adjusting for inflation. We generally expect real-terms costs to lower over time, too. When this slows down, the cost of inflation alone can be a surprise.

Great point about the costs involved in design and innovation – that’s easily overlooked.

I assume the Models line has also made it easier to justify beefing up other models in exchange for a higher price point.

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Nor do I beleive that manufacturers must adhere to a ā€˜cost to make plus fixed profit margin’

What if some genius firm manages to combine some copper wire, some stones and some clever arduino programming in a box and it stuns the world with its ingenuity. Should some regulation ban them for charging more than (copper wire+stones+arduino)*130%?

They should be free to charge whatever they like.

They should bear in mind that someone might make a much cheaper knock off though if they are too greedy.

We have had very low bars to entry for along time. Decades.

And I think the context is relevant. Yes, at the time, the lowered barrier to entry did help hip hop and electronic music - compared to studio rental. Yes, it was lower but still high enough that if someone wanted to produce it was still a substantial expense.

But at some point the barrier becomes too low.

That threshold means that process becomes too easy. Too smooth. There is no struggle. Hence, less effort is needed.

But I think I need to clarify that it’s not just the ultra low barrier to entry. It’s also the disintegration of local, isolated communities where new sounds can flourish.

To your point I think it’s precisely the ultra low barrier to entry and homogenization / copy cat production culture that has led to ā€œalgorithmically driven, commercially over taken marketā€ (ADCOM) you describe.

I don’t see how the barrier to entry can be any lower, and how that can remedy the current state of electronic music.

Yea, there are some amazing artists and good music being produced but it’s often drowned out in the sea of ADCOM noise. Again, that’s because a critical mass are using the same programs, the same plugins, etc.

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In hindsight, had I only bought eurorack modules with solid gold panels, I’d have spent even more, but would be a lot better off today :clown_face:

you live and learn

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