Reload kit over SysEx?

Accent · 2014-01-11T02:01:05.000Z

I got a Novation X-Station yesterday, and started making a template for it for the Mono (which may be the best thing I’ve ever done). It is pretty easy to configure this controller, and it looks like all I need to do it dial in the SysEx string for the kit reload function so I can emulate the Function + Extended trick from the MD. I’m not that well versed in SysEx but I’ve been sussing it out for a few months, yet cannot make any sense of what the string is from the MNM manual. Hoping someone (Guga, can ya hear me?) might be able to shed some light. Thanks.

void · 2014-01-11T02:37:29.000Z

you need to send this:


<--- header ----------------------> <-cmd-> <-kit no.->   <-end->
0xF0, 0x00, 0x20, 0x3C, 0x03, 0x00,  0x58,    0x[XX],       0xF7

[XX] is the kit index you want to load, starting from 0.
there is no command to reload the current kit.

if your controller is scriptable, you could write a script which first asks the MnM for the current kit number, waits for the response, and then sends the kit-load command based on the response. this would do exactly what you need.

if the controller cannot do this, it needs at least something like support for variable data within sysex strings, with some mechanism to dynamically set the [XX] field. then you could use a knob or something to manually choose the kit, and then load it.

void · 2014-01-11T02:50:45.000Z

looked at the X-Station manual, yeah this should actually work…
dial in the DV value in the sysex-byte edit menu where the [XX] is above.

then you should be able to load kits by turning a knob.

not sure if it’s possible to make it so that a knob only sets the kit value, and a button press would then actually send the command… ?

zfigz · 2014-01-11T04:09:26.000Z

[quote=“” void""]
looked at the X-Station manual, yeah this should actually work…
[/quote]

This guy deserves a reward for going above and beyond. Well done, kind sir.

Accent · 2014-01-11T04:42:35.000Z

Void-thank you for your response. Two things: 1) the X-Station only has four numbers that can be dialed in. I’m not sure what part of that to plug in; and 2) so it isn’t possible to program in a single button to reload the kit, like on the MD? I looked at the SysEx for both machines, but the commands looked identical…

void · 2014-01-11T10:50:57.000Z

yeah you have to do the same thing on MD! there’s no command for just reloading the current kit.

i think the x-station display can only show 5 bytes at a time, but you should be able to add more bytes by using cursor left/right?

guga · 2014-01-11T13:53:49.000Z

""Accent"":

I got a Novation X-Station yesterday, and started making a template for it for the Mono (which may be the best thing I’ve ever done). It is pretty easy to configure this controller, and it looks like all I need to do it dial in the SysEx string for the kit reload function so I can emulate the Function + Extended trick from the MD. I’m not that well versed in SysEx but I’ve been sussing it out for a few months, yet cannot make any sense of what the string is from the MNM manual. Hoping someone (Guga, can ya hear me?) might be able to shed some light. Thanks.

…sorry, too late void helped you out with this one

Accent · 2014-01-11T15:55:26.000Z

Ahh, you are correct! I’ll work with it when I get home and report back.

Accent · 2014-01-12T05:07:05.000Z

Void-I just want to thank you again for your input and taking the time to clarify some of this for me. Slowly, I am learning how to utilize this dark magic.

So I put in the string as posted above, mapped to a knob. The cool thing is that I can instantly change kits without changing patterns, so if I want a totally different kit to play over the current pattern, I just have to turn the knob. This opens up a bunch of possibilities for transitions and general sonic mayhem and experimentation, which is way cool.

However, this has me going over both the MD and Monomachine manuals to figure out how the MD kit reload is done. I mentioned Guga in my initial post because he implemented this in the Gugabox, so I know there must be a way to send the command (although I may not be able to do it with the X-Station, despite all the different messages it can send). The best I can do is get it to load a specified kit with the touch of a button, but that is not the same as the MD kit reload.

So, if not SysEx, how can I send this command to the Mono?

guga · 2014-01-12T12:12:28.000Z

""Accent"":

Void-I just want to thank you again for your input and taking the time to clarify some of this for me. Slowly, I am learning how to utilize this dark magic.

So I put in the string as posted above, mapped to a knob. The cool thing is that I can instantly change kits without changing patterns, so if I want a totally different kit to play over the current pattern, I just have to turn the knob. This opens up a bunch of possibilities for transitions and general sonic mayhem and experimentation, which is way cool.

However, this has me going over both the MD and Monomachine manuals to figure out how the MD kit reload is done. I mentioned Guga in my initial post because he implemented this in the Gugabox, so I know there must be a way to send the command (although I may not be able to do it with the X-Station, despite all the different messages it can send). The best I can do is get it to load a specified kit with the touch of a button, but that is not the same as the MD kit reload.

So, if not SysEx, how can I send this command to the Mono?

unfortunately i believe there’s no other way rather than sysex
with a sysex message you can tell the machine to do specific things which you won’t be able to do with other type of MIDI messages (unless the machine you’re using allows you to) in this case reload a kit, which bear in mind,is not a feature you’ve direct access on the MnM (well, you can load the kit again but that’s not like it)

void · 2014-01-12T13:34:27.000Z

the X-Station simply doesn’t cut it :]

you need something which can do some logic with the sysex commands…
I believe Mr. Guga’s box has a firmware which does certain special tricks with the MnM sysex?

you would need to implement the following logic:


on buttonPress:
    1. send request for current kit number
    2. wait for the response containing the kit number
    3. send a load-kit command using that kit number

it’s a fairly simple program, but a program nonetheless! the x-station doesn’t support that.
it would be quite trivial to script this e.g. in the Lemur app on iPad.

Accent · 2014-01-12T15:26:01.000Z

Damn, I was afraid of that.

My plan is to eventually build a Lemur template for the MNM, but I’m still coming to grips with SysEx and template building in Lemur, and the X-Station is easy to program, so it was worth a shot. I’ll start looking at coding in Lemur and see if I can figure out how to do this. Thanks again!

guga · 2014-01-12T20:49:55.000Z

unfortunately i’ve never used lemur so i can’t tell whether this is going to be an easy task or not (perhaps some fellow elektronauts can shed a light on this one for you) but void’s latest post is enough for you to get started
if you can send and receive MIDI sysex with lemur, then you should be ok.

Accent · 2014-01-12T21:45:10.000Z

Yeah, I’m not ready yet to write anything like that for Lemur. I’ve experimented with making some basic templates in it, but I have a lot of work to do still, I think. I’m determined to figure this out, so at the risk of going off topic, maybe I can ask another related SysEx question so I can further my knowledge.

So, now that I have a bit more of an idea about how I might eventually write and use SySex, I’d like to try to create some controls for my Kawai XD-5. Looking at this chart http://www.kawaius-tsd.com/OM/MODULE~1/XD-5WA~1.PDF (page 9 of the PDF) it looks to me like I would write a value of “F0 40 0n 10 00 06 35 F7” if I wanted to control the filter cutoff for single source 1, with “35” being the control for the cutoff. Is that correct? And secondly, I am not able to dial in a value of “0n” in the X-Station. Is that a limitation of my hardware, or is there another value I would use instead?

Sorry for diverging, but I’d like to start working on making a Lemur MNM template for the community eventualy, so the sooner I can grasp this, the better :).

guga · 2014-01-15T02:21:27.000Z

sysex are not that difficult once you get to know them …a bit like 'fill the gap in between f0 and f7
what you refer to as ‘0n’ is not actually a value you dial in, ‘n’ is a variable you can set, in this case the MIDI channel. that’s true for all the other bytes which have letters in them (looking at manual page 9, 4-14 parameter send)
so for instance, if you wanted to send a sysex message to your kawai on channel 12 to set the cutoff at 50 for single source S1, the message would look something like this: 0xf0 0x40 0x0c 0x10 0x00 0x06 0x23 0x00 0x32 0xf7
Channel no.-> 0x0c (range 0x00 to 0x0f)
Sub status 1 -> 0x23 (decimal 35, range 0-100)
Sub status 2 -> 0x00
data -> 0x32 (decimal 50)

you need to convert the decimal numbers on the manual to hexadecimal ones to get things to work

hope this helps

Accent · 2014-01-15T03:37:49.000Z

That helps quite a bit. Someone on Gearslutz explained the channel variable, but I was missing what to put in for the sub status and data values. I’ll experiment with this when I get home and report back. Thank you so much!

Accent · 2014-01-15T07:12:51.000Z

Well, entering the message above didn’t work. Any thoughts?

guga · 2014-01-15T17:23:18.000Z

""Accent"":

Well, entering the message above didn’t work. Any thoughts?

have you checked on which channel is the kawai receiving? it should be the same as the MIDI channel you set in the sysex message (or change the channel number in the sysex to match the MIDI channel on the kawai)

maass · 2014-01-15T17:58:42.000Z

You can get a Ruin&Wesen Minicommand. There is a Firmware which allows you to reload the Kit with just pressing two Buttons. Or you can write your own Firmware with a single Button Reload…

Accent · 2014-01-15T18:05:30.000Z

I have. I have it set to channel 10 (so, 0A), tried connecting it directly via X-Station midi out>XD-5 midi in…and nothing. Exclusive is set to on, tried turning omni on as well just in case, but no change.

So I’m wondering if it may be an issue with the Kawai and the more primitive midi specs it has, or a limitation of the X-Station, or something else entirely.