Recording a 128 step loop

Azzarole · 2021-12-09T11:20:23.161Z

@darenager and @sezare56, thank you so much for your OT onboarding! I have finally found a method that works pretty well for me. The only thing that still makes me scratch my head is how to set the loops.

My method is:

Set reserve buffer to a high number of steps for recorder 1
Perform all patterns on DN for 128 steps each in a row
Edit this recording in Ableton: Chopping it into separate samples of 128 steps each for individual samples on OT + duplicate some patterns to make the original recording of all patterns match for slicing to exactly 12/24 etc. slices. (My sample was 9x128 steps, so I duplicated the last one three times so that I can use a slice grid of 12).
Import to OT and use individual samples or slices

These samples were looping perfectly in Ableton by setting the loop points precisely at the half of each sample, indicated by standard grids at 120 bpm (looping grid 3 and 4 in Ableton for each pattern, corresponding to step 65-129 of the DN pattern). How can I quickly jump to the half point of the sample in AED for setting the loop like I would do in Ableton? Pressing encoder B and scrolling doesn’t bring me there. If I manually navigate there, I don’t seem to find the half point. I am sure there is an obvious solution I haven’t figured out yet. The sample is set to 120bpm, my exported audio in Ableton was for 8 (seconds?), so half point should be at 4s in AED, but loop point here doesn’t work.

Thanks again!

sezare56 · 2021-12-09T12:01:51.837Z

Azzarole:

half point

Total length in samples, divided by 2.
Or slice in 2. Check slice 2 beginning value.

I’m not 100% sure if SLICE selection remains in EDIT. (It is the case for TRIM)

I didn’t understand your method (9x128 steps, 12/24 slices), I’d record desired length with QREC / PLEN settings and slice with OT.

Azzarole · 2021-12-09T12:34:01.051Z

Thanks! Method: Total loop time is 1.152 steps / 9 loops of 128 steps. OT slice grid only allows me to choose 8 or 12 slices, so I added 3x128 steps in Ableton. Now the first nine slices are exactly like I want them to be.

Concerning half: My slices are now 16s, so I should set the loop point to 8s. However, I don’t see any information on where my loop cursor is set when trying to position it manually while in slice menu. It’s only indicated when in trim mode, but I need to set loops to slices. Where can I see when loop point has reached 8s? I don‘t want to use slicing for setting loop points because I have already determined perfect slices that work best when using trigs on the sequencer. Also running into the same problem when using the prepared 9 samples of 128 steps each (see above).

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Azzarole · 2021-12-09T12:43:50.290Z

I can see where the loop cursor is positioned when in trim mode. But there I can’t see the slices I want to apply the looping points to. When in slice menu, no values are indicated while scrolling.

I have also prepared 9 samples with 128 steps each. Setting the loop point to exactly half of it in Ableton plays a perfect loop without any clicks. Setting it to the same position in OT trim mode (in this case L=4 for a sample that has S at 0 and E at 8) produces clicks.

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sezare56 · 2021-12-09T13:25:05.255Z

Azzarole:

don’t see any information on where my loop cursor is set when trying to position it manually while in slice menu

Indeed.
Feature-request@elektron.se
I can see a workaround with more slices.

Azzarole:

in this case L=4 for a sample that has S at 0 and E at 8) produces clicks.

These values aren’t precise at all.
It should be when you reach those values from the left imho.
Chose sample values, use a calculator.
Feature-request@elektron.se

Finding exact start/end/loop point in audio editor Octatrack

Exemple, you want 1 bar at 60 bpm Bar = 1.00 is shown at 175 518 samples Bar = 1.01 is shown at 177 282 samples Average : (177 282+175 518)÷2=176 400 The exact value is 176 400 I’d want Bar = 1.00 to be shown at 176 400 samples

Azzarole · 2021-12-09T13:37:10.768Z

Thanks! How can I make the OT show me loop position in samples instead of seconds?

sezare56 · 2021-12-09T13:51:17.989Z

In TRIM page, samples values are displayed in the left.
Nothing displayed in SLICE page as you pointed at. (I never use loop points).

Azzarole · 2021-12-09T13:56:34.187Z

Awesome, works perfectly! Thank you SO much, now I can finally get to actually make music with my OT. Maybe I would have quit frustrated without your help!

Azzarole · 2021-12-09T14:44:57.473Z

Dang, I can’t sequence these loops. Plan was to make 9 patterns with 64 steps each, starting with a one-shot-trig locked to a 128 step DN pattern sample with a loop set in the middle that keeps on looping from step 129 onwards. But if I jump from pattern 1 to 2 now, the one-shot-trig of pattern 1 continues playing while the one-shot-trig of pattern 2 won’t start playing.

Any solution without messing with the scale or having to arm the track or spreading my samples to several tracks? Scale settings are not an option because I want to eventually sync the OT to my DT to perform live and scale settings mess up DT patterns. Spreading the samples to different tracks is not an option since I only have 7 tracks available and 9 samples, also bought the OT to be able to perform DN patterns with only one OT track and then add samples from other instruments or vocals on the remaining OT tracks. Don’t want to have to press buttons for arming tracks because it makes performing too intense, pattern changes like playing DN/DT/AF would be preferable. The OT really doesn’t seem to be made for sequencing samples longer than 64 steps with any releases …

Edit: Changing patterns as I have mentioned works when using slices. But as I cannot set the exact value for a loop, I would have to make 24 instead of 12 slices and then be able to make the sequencer start with slice 1 , play it for 128 steps and then play and loop slice 2 from then on. Any chance of doing this without messing with scales? I could double the patterns to 18 instead of 9 and only use one slice of 128 steps per pattern, but then making these slices loop correctly would still be extremely tedious to nearly impossible.

darenager · 2021-12-09T16:48:57.859Z

Azzarole:

Plan was to make 9 patterns with 64 steps each, starting with a one-shot-trig locked to a 128 step DN pattern sample with a loop set in the middle that keeps on looping from step 129 onwards.

Don’t bother with loop, set your pattern to 64 steps, then use trig condition to prevent sample retrigging on step 1.

So if you have a 128 step sample, set a trig on step one with trig condition 1:2, it will play on first step, on 65 step it will continue to play, until step 129 where it will retrigger.

Or you could use scale with per track scale settings, this won’t affect sync as long as master is set to 1 and master len is set to 128, set the track to 1/2, 64 steps, regular trig on step 1.

Try either of those.

Azzarole · 2021-12-09T17:31:22.085Z

Thanks again. Unfortunately, both of these methods don‘t work. Because the sample will start at the beginning instead of the middle of my sample after 128 steps.

Best solution so far seems to be to make 24 instead of 12 slices or 18 instead of 9 samples, increase scale to 4x and then using @deranger‘s method of setting a 1st condition trig with sample of steps 1-128 on step 1 and another trig on 33 without any condition of steps 129-257.

Unless I can solve the issue of pattern 1 playing after switching to pattern 2.

Thanks a lot again. I just find it hard to believe that this seems so complicated, I thought what I am trying is a pretty basic thing.

JSZ · 2021-12-09T23:45:27.078Z

You want the sample to play slice 1 the first time it is triggered and slice 2 every time after that?

Azzarole · 2021-12-10T10:05:01.560Z

Exactly, I want the sequencer to play sample/slice A first 128 steps and sample/slice B from step 129 onwards. Since looping a one trig shot means I then can’t jump to another pattern, I guess the only solution is to

adjust scale so that the pattern sequencer runs at 128 steps (see explanations above)
place a trig with sample/slice A on trig 1, place a trig with sample/slice B on trig 2 with lowest possible micro timing.
add trig conditions to both trigs (1st for trig 1 and pre with line above it on trig 2?).

I‘m afraid this will still mess up looping due to microtiming, but I will try it out. Otherwise, I will just record long samples for every pattern and set the scale real high …

JSZ · 2021-12-10T10:44:21.777Z

The microtiming approach should work ok. I don’t see how it could mess up your looping.

There’s also the option to only use one trig and manually change the slice parameter after the pattern has started.

darenager · 2021-12-10T10:57:27.629Z

Just use 2 patterns, 1st to play 1-128, second to play 129 onwards.

Azzarole · 2021-12-10T11:04:25.322Z

Thanks, second option is a good idea, but I want to avoid having to manually change trigs when I am performing.

So the above described approach is basically working. As I expected, there is some clicks on the micro-timed trig. But I can probably fix that by preparing a sample instead of a slice, add some fade in and out on a flex machine and then assign the prepared sample to a static machine.

I hope this will work for the future. Thank you so much again. It‘s been quite frustrating so far, but at the same time, I have learned a lot about the OT on the way, which should make life easier from now on.

Azzarole · 2021-12-10T11:06:51.940Z

Yeah I thought about that as well, but then I will have 18 patterns, actually reflecting 9 patterns. Would make performing quite stressful and/or confusing, but maybe I will revert to this solution for songs with less patterns.

darenager · 2021-12-10T11:30:07.775Z

I guess you have to make a compromise with any gear, it can be done though.

sezare56 · 2021-12-10T13:13:08.302Z

Azzarole:

performing quite stressful

Arranger is your friend, you can loop one or several patterns, jump to any row, write remarks to find the good part…
Arrows + YES. Seems safer than pattern chains…

JSZ · 2021-12-10T13:49:14.427Z

Yep if you know you’re going to want to play pattern1 followed by pattern2 looping n times, then switch to patterns 3 and 4 with the same structure etc, this would seem like a good use case for the arranger.