Receiving Program Change Messages Not Responding Immediately


#21

I am trying to control the Rytm with a Pyramid Squarp, but it seems it is still waiting one full cycle too much to change patterns with firmware version 1.45B (when direct change enabled).

It makes live performance with the Rytm very unpleasant: neither it sends midi out from the sequencer, nor it respond to program change on time. In other words: it is not capable enough to be the center of the setup and won’t be a good companion other sequencers.

Is Elektron going to do something about it?


#22

Same problem , just posted!

I have tried to find a workflow to deal with this for the last year with no success. The only solution is to record the audio of the patterns, trim it to loop as needed, remove the Rytm from the project and sequence the audio loops instead…

It’s really disappointing …


#23

Good job! I did the same but converted the program changes to notes for easier handling.

This issue is probably one of the biggest complaints about the Rytm (from experienced users) …

I use Live and connect to Rytm over USB, it clocks perfectly ( with a-20ms offset). If you set Live’s clock output type to Song, the Rytm will follow live’s playhead when in Song mode. Bitwig should have the same setting?

However, Rytm will NOT send the program changes ove the USB port!

It would be really good if Elektron would chime in and explain to us why this cannot be solved? Some communication is needed here , I don’t understand why such a loyal fan following gets ignored like this. If we don’t understand we will continue complaining and eventually move on to another brand if the gear does not work as we expect it to…

I bought the Rytm for the live performance/ live jamming potential, but it has been one show-stopper after another.

quote=“Olle@Elektron”]This has been up for discussion before and the developers are working on
it. It’s a bit tricky since nothing is instant in MIDI and they need to
find out a way to keep the machines in sync while doing a direct jump.

This issue is moot. When in direct jump mode you can use the Rytm’s 16 trig keys to jump around patterns and the machine does not lose sync even though human timing is never 100% accurate. It works fine so long as you’re close to the beat and MIDI transmission will be more accurate in a good MIDI setup.

Just please please add Map mode and we’ll deal with the rest!! The A 4 has it , the MD has it…


#24

Unfortunately it seems that the only one way to switch patterns simultaneously (OT master in my case) is to set PC auto channel to 14 in OT preferences. But patterns will become hard-linked.:man_shrugging:t2:


#25

We’re talking about the Rytm…

What Jim describes is the only way to synchronize Rytm’s pattern changing with other sequencers… But we shouldn’t need to use BOME to do this… Program changes are problematic. Ableton Live does not read them! A compehensive implementation would allow us to choose what type of MIDI message (note, CC or program change ) to send out when changing patterns on the Rytm. If a latching pattern mode was added, the Rytm would become an awesome live performance tool for setups involving other sequencers…

Please forward this thread to Elektron developers…


#26

Yo. There is another way. Apparently it works for OT. But I’m yet to get it working bang on with my AR. And you still need a translator of some description.

Basically your translator needs to convert the PGM change (or whatever message you want to send to trigger a pattern change on the AR from your ‘master’ sequencer) into a stop sequencer, followed by pgm change, and then a start sequencer command. (Continue sequence might be better, but I’m still experimenting…) The best I could get it was by setting up 3 separate translators and delaying the final sequence start command by 10ms. But it was still way too sloppy. And sometimes just wouldn’t work at all. Might be that I just need to keep filtering surplus MIDI in the process chain.

The AR will switch patterns instantly in response to a PGM change message, but the sequencer has to be stopped in order to do it. If you can get the commands out and received fast enough, you might get an imperceptible pattern switch in line with your other sequencers.

So depending on the complexity of your MIDI rig and the speed at which you can get your MIDI out your translator and into the AR, and whether you have MIDI/USB jitter in the mix, you might be able to do it. Or maybe however you have it set up the AR just can’t deal with incoming messages that quickly.

And I’m still figuring out whether to put the AR into Direct Start or Direct Jump mode.

Would be interested to know if anyone else has got this working with the AR and what your MIDI signal paths and clock routings are.

jim


#27

i have the same problem with digitone when i send Pattern Change commands from Octa. once i set longer pattern than 16 steps on Digitone i dont get the switches that they happen at the same time, whaever i try. ch. lengh. doesnt help. i spend so much time trying getting it work its insane.
this is so annoying. i dont get why this is not top priority. its been there so long its super frustrating. how can you design a product line which doesnt play well with each other??


#28

The Machinedrum, monomachine and analog4 have a workaround with midimap, where you can trigger a pattern instantly with a specific midi note. Was surprised and sad to see that it wasn’t on the rytm especially. The Digi machines could do with that particular feature as well, but holding extremely low expectations that anything will change.
My workaround is using the Machinedrum as main drum machine and the rytm as a ‘layering, colour and phrase’ box. Not what I bought it for, but ah well.


#29

As far as I know, since I do not own an ar, this behaviour has been pretty consistent with all elektron boxes.

I own an analog, keys, an ot mk2 and used to have a dn, a4 and a heat…Same behviour on all boxes which have an onboard sequencer, absolute minimal duration before pchange actually occurs after receiving command is 2 steps. The way to bypass this is having patterns switched by midi notes when avaliable…The pattern change mode only affects behaviour for manual pattern switching…
Pretty clunky but I’m not sure, you can maintain tight timing otherwise…Switching sounds is pretty straightforward, switching multiple sequences at different steps/bars, time signature on multiple sequencers must be harder, because I can’t see this as a deliberate design choice, more of a constraint…


#30

@ Jimbrackpool

Using the AR to send Prog change and translating that to notes and using the notes to launch scenes or patterns in the master sequencer is as good as it gets, I think. The CHNG=2 is the hurdle here, you cannot go faster than 1/8 of a bar.

(Repeating myself as this is worth it): Dear Elektron: if you will please add this to the Rytm, I will personally come to Sweden and kiss your feet (and any other body parts you want kissed) and sing your praises to high heaven for the rest of my days!!!


#31

Having faith keeps alive ! This issue has been reaised countless of times on these forums and on elektron-users and, correct me if I’m wrong, has been conciensously ignored…
If someone could direct me to an an official answer to this, I will be more than thankfull…


#32

Press stop. Send a PGM change. Instant switch. Press play.

Now, if you can get those 3 events into AR as MIDI messages (sent, received and processed sequentially) you have a workaround.

I did it. With a Pyramid, a MIO 10 and Bome Translator. It wasn’t tight enough or consistent enough. But it was close. I wasn’t especially methodical in my approach. And I ran out of patience. Someone with a more efficient MIDI rig may be able to nail it. Or someone with more expertise. And patience.

Maybe turbo midi would help? (higer res out - higher res in) Or a breakout Bome translator (DIN, not USB)? Maybe I need to offset a clock so Rytm is always 1ms behind? Or in front? Or microtime my down beat steps - nudge them forwards to allow for a stopPGM change/start in single tick before the pattern starts. (I’m only interested in pattern changes on bar lines) Maybe it’s a continue command and not a start command? I don’t know. So many variables.

I gotta put this down for a bit and actually finish some music. I may come back to it.

Jim


#33

That’s not a viable workaround… If you only need to trigger pattern changes manually at the end of whole bars then you can get it to work by using the simpler workaround described earlier. (sending pattern changes from the Rytm) The Rytm will send the program change according to the CNHG parameter, so if your pattern is 64 steps and you set the CHNG to 64 it will work as expected.
But if you want to automate those pattern changes without messing around with track delays on the DAW, the only way is to use the Rytm’s clunky song mode and for changing on bar lines it will work … but of course program changes are not useable in many cases so some other box or software is needed in the middle… which is just not good enough for a drum machine of this caliber.

+1!!! This will really determine whether I keep this machine (and recommend it to others) or just move on.


#34

I opened a ticket regarding this issue, u should probably do the same…


#35

Brand new rytm owner here. If I had known about these issues I would never of bought one. Just presumed it would play nice with my octatrack being from the same company. im guessing from the age of this thread this isnt going to be resolved any time soon?


#36

It plays nice with the Octatrack. But MIDI is not instant, direct change will therefore most likely not work well.


#37

am i maybe missing something then? all i want to do is change pattern from the octatrack and for it to change the pattern on the rytm and stay in sync. been doing this with program changes but the pattern lags so to speak


#38

What are your pattern settings? (Change, Length, Direct Change mode)


#39

im using the sequential pattern change mode on the rytm, and the pattern on the octatrack is 64 steps in length


#40

What is the pattern length / change value on the RYTM?