Question: your workflow with samples/projects

Elektron Gear Analog Rytm
1

Apologies in advance for some serious forthcoming rambling here but I wanted to talk out loud about how we use this device. I am curious on your workflow in how you choose samples and set up your projects in the context of writing music.

I’ve been a big user of NI Maschine and usually use tons of samples and 1 shots in my tracks. I could end up with 50-60 tracks just for my drums in some tracks. So using the Rytm has been a challenge so far mentally, especially with only being able to work with the 127 pool samples at a time and needing the C6 program to load samples in. I’ve loaded a ton of samples from different sources into the Rytm and now trying to figure out how to work them into project instances. I’ve downloaded for example, about 100 808 samples. And that bank alone almost fills up the entire pool. How do you guys go about managing these limitations?

I guess the way the Rytm is set up, its best to pre-plan your sounds before you write music and then just use what’s in the pool? In a way this is good as it forces you to be pickier about your samples and do more with less. But for me this is still a mental block because I usually choose samples on the fly based on how a song is developing. Would love your guys’ opinions on this and how you make this work for you.

Finally, I wanted to share a trick I discovered where if you browse for samples and hit Function + Yes, you can browse to the +drive and swap out samples into the pool live. This helps but I still want to learn more ways to speed up efficiency in the music making process. Sorry, hope this topic makes sense to some of you.

2

One suggestion:
http://www.elektronauts.com/t/tip-sample-banks-on-the-rytm/11156

Sometimes I use this kind of structure, sometimes I just load samples. On the MD, I ended up always using a very clear sample and sample bank structure but that was after years of usage whereas I’m still quite “new” to the Rytm. The/one main difference is that you can quickly and easily click through sample folders! That’s why working on the Rytm might not require as much structure as on the MD, but then again you’re coming from the opposite direction :smiley:

Btw, 1) you can also use sample chains and 2) you can map sample slots or start position in a sample chain to velocity when you might run out of tracks. 12 are not that much.

you can do that on the Rytm as well, but you know that already. maybe I don’t understand this problem? just start with just some basic samples in your project and load new samples from the +drive when you need them.

P.S. Looking forward to reading other approaches! :slight_smile:

3

Sample chains and waveform chains are here to save you.

Having 30 or 60 “hits” in a single 7 or 8 second long .wave file sample means instead of 127 samples per project, you’ve got anywhere from 3,800 to 7,600 “sample hits” per project. When using chains, the limitation then becomes the 64MB RAM for your project pool, rather than the 127 sample slots.

My calculations of the 64MB, at 16bit, 48khz, mono gives you 11:07 total project sampling time.
(or just over 666 seconds, f’yea! Metal! \m/ )

Click on Analog Rytm in the Files section and you will find loads of drums, basses, chords, etc. All in chain format (multiple hits per sample).
You load them up as you would a single sample, and use the start/end times to isolate the hit you want. For waveform (synth) chains, do the same but also turn the loop on and adjust your AMP envelopes to suit.
Make sure you use Rytm chains, and not Octatrack chains, as they use a different slice count division.

After I discovered chains, I dumped all the single shots out of my Rytm’s pool and only loaded the pool with chains. I have over 5,000 sample hits in my current project pool, and that’s using about 42MB of the pool RAM.

4

thanks so much for the suggestion Adam. On one hand that seems like a great idea, if I made sample chains containing the same “type” of sound.
A few concerns though: 1. how long does it take to build these chains? (I have no idea how to do them yet btw). 2. you then lose the ability to start a sample “later”. Or is the Attack/Decay/Hold in the Amp section enough for this?

5

In the sample section of your track, there’s a start and end point that you can set manually. The total amount of points in a sample is 120. Hence the recommended 30 and 60 sample slice lengths.
If you have a slice of 60 samples, hits’ start points should be set to 0, 2, 4, 6, 8, etc. with end points 2 points afterward.
If you have a slice of 30 samples, hits’ start points set to 0, 4, 8, 12, 16, etc. with end points 4 points afterward.

It’s not hard at all. Takes me maybe 10 minutes to arrange a chain of 30, including time taken to audition and choose the hits.
Here’s a screen shot of some MachineDrum BD’s lined up in a chain of 30 prior to rendering. The chain is about 18 seconds long due to longer BD decays.
Hats and claps and snares can be much shorter.

Screen_Shot_2015_03_26_at_6_05_33_PM.png1006×579 60.9 KB


I use Ableton Live. Things to make sure of are as follows…
[ul]
[li]Warp is off on all your samples, [/li]
[li]FADES are turned off in the record/warp/launch preferences[/li]
[li]Keep all the peaks to under -3dB, or you will get some added distortion in Rytm.[/li]
[li]Select all the way to the end of the last slice (30 or 60), not just the end of the sample when you render the chain to .wav. You need all of them to be the same length, silences included. Equal divides. Note in the screenshot how the selection goes all the way to the end of 30 where 31 begins.[/li]
[li]Turn up the BPM to reduce the silence between hits. Turn it up until you begin to see the tails from some samples merge into the attacks from others. Notice the 400+ BPM in the screenshot above.[/li]
[li]Always render to Rytm’s native format: Wav, 16bit, 48khz, Mono[/li]
[/ul]

6

Dear AdamJay,

i do not really understand why the BPM for the chains is so high.
Please can you give a detail information about, thank you.

All the best,

waldemaR

7

Sure.
When warp is in the off setting for all samples in Ableton, changing the BPM up makes the total time of the rendered sample chain .wav shorter in length.
Changing the BPM down makes the total time of render longer.

If i have half a second between each sample, I can crank up the BPM and that makes the file only 18 seconds long (and smaller file size for Rytm’s RAM), rather than, say… 30 seconds long.

Try it out in Ableton. It’s a bit more difficult to explain than it is to experience for yourself.

8

Dear AdamJay,

thank you for explain.

One question more, do you try this also with Pads Chords?

All the best,

waldemaR

9

AdamJay, I made a deposit to your karma account.

10

In addition to Adams game-changing contribution (srsly, top marks), remember you can plock sample slots (or chain position). Or assign the lfo to the sample slot and adjust depth for some true fuckery.

11

I don’t personally, but you could.

12

thx for all that info i had just started making sample chains but was struggling to find the start of different samples to get the punch required… i’ll try again with equal divides

13

I’ve done equal division as well, and it’s still hard to get the perfect start point.

14

I’ve done equal division as well, and it’s still hard to get the perfect start point.[/quote]
Yes, it is quite hard indeed. You have 0-127 start steps, so that would mean 128 chain-samples of length “1”. Considering the length of the wav-chain and probably the BPM of the project, probably, would make it a little easier.

Maybe someone can come up with a simple calc tool for this?

15

[quote=““NO CARRIER””]

[quote=“mekohler”][quote=“gushrecords”]thx for all that info i had just started making sample chains but was struggling to find the start of different samples to get the punch required… i’ll try again with equal divides
[/quote]

I’ve done equal division as well, and it’s still hard to get the perfect start point.[/quote]
Yes, it is quite hard indeed. You have 0-127 start steps, so that would mean 128 chain-samples of length “1”. Considering the length of the wav-chain and probably the BPM of the project, probably, would make it a little easier.

Maybe someone can come up with a simple calc tool for this?
[/quote]

For Octatrack it is 128 steps.
In a sample on Rytm you have 120 start steps.

16

Oh, yes, you are right! thank you!

17

Nice one, thanks Adam.

I had noticed with what i was trying so far the sample playback was kind of “vari-speed”…the whole sample seemed to not play back evenly as it should. i think i finally know the culprit thanks to Adam:

Always render to Rytm’s native format: Wav, 16bit, 48khz <<<

I had default render setting in my DAWs (maybe elektron could have though of this). Not sure i need the chains, but will give it a go just to check it out. Appreciate the tip!

Good that i am still exploring and learning, starting fresh is fine.

As for the OP’s question, if you have some solid samples in there, the synth / fx / lfo / tune adjustments can totally change the sound of what you are using. The beauty of the Rytm and they sound really good with sampels too. For this reason I feel I can work with less pretty easily.