Question about Digitakt's way of sending Midi Clock Sync

Elektron Gear Digitakt
1

Hi all!

I have a liveshow containing Digitakt, Digitone, Behringer 303 and Yamaha RM1X.

The MIDI setup is as follows:

MIDI Out Ableton / Interface -> Digitakt MIDI In

MIDI Thru Digitakt -> Digitone In

Digitone MDI Thru -> RM1X MDI In

Digitakt MIDI Out -> 303 MIDI In

So I would normally receive clock from Ableton to Digitakt, where it all distributes midi to the other devices. So basically the Digitakt is my first hardware clocker after it comes out of Ableton / Scarlett Interface.

So what I wanted to try, was to go Dawless, and I figured, it wouldn’t really matter whether Digitakt was receiving clock and then distributing it further, versus Digitakt being the first one to send clock, without receiving it from an external source (Ableton).

However, once I tried to press play on the Digitakt, somehow the clock towards the other devices would not start!

Can someone please explain to me what I’m missing here? Because I found out on a soundcheck before a show and the engineer had to download Logic Pro on the spot and send me clock in order for my liveset to work, was actually hilarious but I want to solve this puzzle!

Really appreciate any answers, best
Remco

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Sorry if this is too obvious, but do you have clock and transport out enabled for DT?

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Yes that’s all set up right!

4

Maybe, since you are using the Thru on the Digitakt to the other devices, Digitakt does’nt send start/stop?

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he has midi out on the digitakt sent to the 303 midi in, so that’s not the case. at a minimum the 303 would start, as long as it is on the correct midi channel and set to receive clock and transport.

let me think about this a minute, I need to read your post in more detail to see what you’re missing.

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Ok I’m just going to go through this like neither of us has any idea what we’re doing so if it seems a bit redundant just bear with it, I hope your digitakt is with you so we can visually confirm the settings in the present tense and that way neither of us misses anything due to what we believe as opposed to what we’ve confirmed.

first: settings menu > midi config > sync

image

additionally, if you are sending program change from digitakt to other devices you will need program change enabled in the same menu, however program change will not impact the transport or receipt of clock on the other downstream devices.

next: port config

image
the only reason to have “input from” enabled is if you are using a midi controller to control notes, but for the time being let’s have it disabled because I’m unclear on whether this is still set up with your computer and if it is, it’s likely that ableton is still somehow playing the master clock. until we figure out why, it’s better to leave it disabled.

additionally :

  • you can select whether data is sent on the autochannel or the track channel using the output channel, but it will not impact our current scenario.
  • parameter output will select whether you are sending cc or nrpn messages but it will not impact our current scenario.
  • encoder destination will need to be int+ext if you are going to control other devices with digitakt as your controller but it will not impact our current scenario.
  • trig key destination same as above.
  • mute destination will select whether digitakt mutes only internally, internal plus external, or external only, same as above it will not impact our current scenario but depending on how you intend to use digitakt setting mute destinations may be part of your ultimate set up.
  • receive notes: if you intend to play digitakt or any downstream device with a keystep or other chromatic or drum pad controller, this needs to be enabled, if digitakt is truly the first device in line it does not. It also will not impact our scenario.

Next: Channels

I’ll need you to specify whether digitakt is sending clock only, or how you have set up the channels, it will be easier than making assumptions about what you’re doing or how you’ve set things. please confirm the settings of the first 2 sections and tell me specifically what you have set under channels, but also remember this:
image

So to say, make sure your midi channel is also set correctly on the source parameter page before you go to too much additional trouble. I’ll check back on this when I have a minute to see what you’ve updated with and we can go from there.

For now, I’ll assume you have transport receive and clock receive enabled on the digitone but now would be good time to verify that as well.

It’s probably one small setting, but verifying these things methodically is the only way to yield a productive answer and result.

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Wow. You cannot imagine how much I appreciate this thorough answer. Once I come home tonight I will verify everything you asked for and get back to you. For now I hope you have a lovely day!

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Thanks, you as well. Make sure you click reply on my response or add an @ with my name when you have some further data so that I’ll know to check this thread. If everything appears in place and these pseudo-instructions don’t conclude things for you I’ll do my best to get you the rest of the way. I’m just some dude, not a digitakt professional, so set your expectations accordingly :smiley:

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@shigginpit Alright so

Clock receive, clock send, transport receive, transport send are all enabled on the DT.
When I start Digitakt’s sequencer, the digitone (which is first in line in the midi chain after digitakt via the midi thru (sync B) port of the digitakt to the digitone midi in, the digitone will NOT start.

I tested two things with peculiar results:

  1. When the midi connection from
    “Digitakt Thru (Sync B) -> Digitone MIDI IN”
    is changed towards:
    “Digitakt Out (Sync A) -> Digitone MIDI IN”
    it actually starts following the digitakt’s clock (as long as I have transport send and clock send enabled on Digitakt.)

Conclusion #1: Digitakt Thru port only seems to work if an external clock (usually ableton) is controlling Digitakt, as opposed to Digitakt being the first device generating clock send.

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@shigginpit Oops, didn’t mean to post reply already as I hadn’t finished.

Finding #2:

When I use an external clock (I happen not to have soundcard to my disposal right now but I do have a beatstep pro with midi out towards digitakt in, suddenly MIDI Thru (Sync B) port will work to send from Digitakt towards Digitone. It doesn’t even matter whether I turn off clock receive, clock send, transport receive, transport send, the digitone will start to run, once I press play on the beatstep pro, so it seems the MIDI Thru port on digitakt completely ignores all MIDI settings on the Digitakt itself, and just provides a clock from beatstep -> (digitakt all settings ignored) -> digitone. Interesting to realize this.

Now the curious and problematic thing, is that even having set up digitakt “clock receive + transport receive” and the beatstep set from midi out to digitakt’s midi input, the digitakt WILL NOT start running. EVEN THOUGH it does pass on the clock to the digitone via the tru port… WTF!? I mean to completely rule out that it’s the beatstep being weird I need to get my soundcard connected as I was using it in my actual liveshow, but in view of the fact that the digitone will start running out of digitakt’s thru port, it would be safe to conclude that the beatstep is sending proper MIDI clock towards the other devices.

Concerning your question about the midi channels towards the 303, I have MIDI CH A (trig 9) set to MIDI CH1 in SRC, and 303 is receiving on MIDI CH 1. And yes clock receive and transport receive on the Digitone are enabled, but you could have guessed from the rest of my answer already :slight_smile:

Any other thoughts of what could be going wrong here are massively appreciated.
Best
Remco

11

@shigginpit Okay so finding #3!

You said “the only reason to have “input from” enabled is if you are using a midi controller to control notes, but for the time being let’s have it disabled”

So I disabled input from on the port config page of Digitakt, however when I put it back from disabled to midi, the sync actually started running again when I would start the clock on the beatstep -> digitakt. Also the digitone would start running so via an external clock source I’m again able to have everything running.

Now the question remains, how do I need to setup my MIDI chain, so that digitakt can be the first one to generate MIDI sync, which is then followed by the digitone, then goes to the RM1X via Digitone’s MIDI Thru, while still having a way to set up a MIDI port from digitakt to send MIDI notes to the 303. (For example, I can use port A on digitakt to start running the clock on the digitone, (as Port B / Thru doesn’t seem to work if digitakt is the first clock sync generator) but then how am I going to send MIDI notes from digitakt to 303? Surely not via Digitakt’s Thru / Sync B port? Or should that be DT Out / Sync A -> Digitone Thru -> 303? and then from 303’s Thru to the RM1X? (RM1X only needs to receive clock, no notes).

Sorry this became a whole story but I do feel we’re getting somewhere. :slight_smile:

Remco

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hey, so I was about to say what you just posted, you’ll need to re-enable the input on the port config page, which you did and it worked.

Given your findings you’re going to need a thru device, like midi solutions or other brand of midi splitter, I think it’s the only way you’re going to succeed with having digitakt as the master clock. If you have a midi splitter great let’s test it, if not I think you’ll need to get one. I’ve seen people use a splitter cable to pass clock/transport message on (as opposed to a thru box) but I don’t know if I recommend it.

this will split one into 2 out ports
image

this will split one into 4

image
image1250Ă—906 113 KB

This is not the only brand, but just showing you what I’m talking about. I own these one’s (from this specific brand) that’s the only reason I’m showing them.

Are you using a midi bank A channel 1 to sequence the 303 using the digitakt sequencer? or is it just triggering a sequence on the 303 itself? If the 303 has it’s own sequencer running, we might be able to daisychain out ports instead of using the thru’s like you’re trying to do.

to daisychain them would mean you wouldn’t need a splitter. I guess I’m unclear as to whether the notes for the 303 originate from digitakt or digitone, I’m now assuming that the 303 is just a sound module because you mentioned sending it midi notes.

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without making any purchases, I think you can go digitakt out to digitone, set a midi sequence on digitone midi track for the 303 and send midi out from digitone to the 303, on the digitone thru port you can send clock (originating at the digitakt) to the yamaha.

to send a midi note sequence from digitakt you’ll need a splitter, this is only if I’m understanding clearly your intents.

14

@shigginpit Cheers for the quick answer! Yes good call on the MIDI splitter, that’s definitely an option if different routings don’t work. What every device needs to “do” or “receive” is the following:

Digitakt : either receive clock or be the first clock. No notes need to be received, no program change etc.

Digitone: Idem dito, only clock needs to be received

303 (Behringer TD-3 to be precise) No clock sync needed, the sequencer here isn’t doing anything it just needs to receive midi notes from digitakt’s sequencer (MIDI CH A, SRC = CH1)

RM1X: Only clock needs to be received, however I know of some troublesome things that can happen when the Out or Thru is used on the RM1X, as it could generate intense MIDI glitches / program changes unless you have a newer update on the floppy disk installed which I sadly do not have. So that RM1X is best used as last in a chain let’s say. We’ll have to cut it some slack, it’s from 1999 after all :wink:

Taking all this in mind, can we think of a MIDI chain here that starts clock sync with either digitakt or digitone, somehow makes 303 receive notes, and ends with RM1X as last in the chain?

If not, then yes, a splitter will be the only option. But if we could switch around like digitone -> digitakt -> 303 -> RM1X for examples that would save me the 70-80 bucks a splitter will cost.

I guess the only way is for me to set up my full liveset and try it out, so will also try that! But if you have any ideas from the top of your head already that’s great too.

The main reason I’m trying to get rid of Ableton is to carry less gear all the time, as I can conveniently use Jack -> RCA cables to connect these 4 devices to a Xone 92/96 DJ mixer, which is usually always available in the clubs I play my shows, and that will replace the need to bring a soundcard, midi controller, and laptop. As Ableton is only used for clock, monitoring (via soundcard + midi controller), which are all things that a DJ mixer can do as well, even more so as it’s literally designed to do that!

In any case thanks for all the help you’ve already provided.

15

ok, see what I said just above and tell me if you think that will work for you, to send notes from digitone instead of digitakt, but have digitakt still be first in line. You can easily set midi note sequences to the td3 on the digitone patterns and then when digitakt changes patterns those midi note sequences will follow digitone which is following digitakt, as the midi sequence is part of the pattern.

to send to both from digitakt at the same time (not daisychain), I think you’ll need at least a splitter cable, which you could try as they are inexpensive, but if you intend to cc control parameters live on the 303 from digitakt I don’t know that I would trust a splitter cable. the midi thru splitter boxes have optoisolator components which keep the electronic signals from mixing or getting jumbled.

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THRU ports only pass on what they receive from the preceding device; they don’t mix new data created on the device with what they receive. (some specific devices might behave differently, but treat them as outliers). So you can’t use the THRU port to send data (such as a clock) generated on the device; you have to use OUT for that.

In the case you described earlier, the devices after the Digitakt are receiving the clock sent by Ableton, not anything generated by the Digitakt.

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Cool, learn something every day :slight_smile:

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Did you try chaining the devices using the out ports with the digitakt leading but with digitone playing the midi sequence instead of digitakt? and the yamaha taking clock from the digitone’s thru port?

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I think If I read the original posts correct OP didn’t change any cabling when using digitakt as master clock - so there was nothing being passed to the other devices via DT thru, the DT MIDI out needs to be used.

So there shouldn’t be any need for a midi thru box, just the existing thru ports on 303 and DN

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I didn’t know the td3 had a thru port, in that case it could work if you went dt (clock/midi notes/transport) out to dn in> dn thru to td3 in > td3 thru to rm1x in, all in a row. If all note sequences for the td3 are to be written on the dt sequencer, that is.

In the first post however, the td3 was connected to dt out and not receiving clock or transport,

that was the start of the confusion, as it was already connected to the digitakt out and OP stated send was enabled on dt.

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