Hey everyone, I’m a long-time lurker here and at the old EU forum finally delurking. I’ve owned the quadrinity for almost a year, and despite searching the forums, reading the manuals/guides and watching tutorials, I’m still having a hard time getting my head around song/set composition with it, particularly with transitions. I’m curious to know how other people do it.
Merlin’s OT guide has given me invaluable insight into managing the workflow on the OT, but I’m still not sure how to incorporate my other gear into it. My setup is as Dataline suggested here:
MIDI out from OT to - A4 - MnM - MD.
A4 Audio out OT, MnM L output to MD, MnM R output to A4. MD goes into the other stereo pair in the OT.
The OT controls pattern changes on the MNM/MD and A4.
I’d pay good money for tuition but that ain’t likely here in Seoul.
Perhaps I just need to reread everything again but right now any pointers would be most welcome.
Big questions to be sure … I don’t want to assume anything here but it’s possible you may be trying to do too much at once. FWIW, this approach has helped me learn, combine and perform livesets with my Elektrons.
At first, don’t try to involve all four instruments. Focus on each one for a few days/weeks. (Standard language here about their depth and capabilities.) Before moving on to another, make sure you can do basic interesting things with each one, even if they’re not complete tracks. Make solid grooves with the MD, for example, or ear-pleasing two-track lines with one synth.
Don’t try to do everything you can think of, just explore and observe and enjoy. But try to glean a new piece of usable knowledge from each session.
When you’ve done this with a couple-three Elektrons individually, think of manageable ways to put two of them together (and imho don’t worry for now about making one tell another to change patterns, just change both manually while you explore). For example, set up the MnM to play Hector and, instead of a turntable, run the MD through its inputs. Or run the MD into the OT and learn the crossfader transition method.
Take written notes as you go if it helps. I know I do, I’d never remember half of what I discover.
Eventually you may realize that you don’t need to use all your Elektrons at the same time to make full tracks you like. If you find a combo of two Elektrons that speaks to you, focus for awhile on going deeper with it. Don’t hesitate to limit your gear options temporarily for the sake of learning.
During this whole process, listen to lots of other people’s music that’s in the basic style you are trying to compose in. In addition to inspiration, you’ll start to get reminders of sonic moves you have already learned how to do. Then you’ll be able to answer your questions in your own way.
Thanks for your input duabathonic. I may be trying to bite off more than I can chew right now but it’s just frustrating that I can’t see the solutions in front of me. I already feel comfortable making nice grooves with everything, but I suppose I should spend more time using one of synths in conjunction with the OT, learning the transition tricks, and taking notes, as you say. Let the experiments continue.
It really is one of the things that are missing in working with the Elektrons, tying them all together somehow.
I’m using Maschine Studio to use them together. And you could basically use any DAW or MIDI-sequencer to do the same, of course. You could also use the Octatrack as the center of it all, but it’s a bit limiting with only 8 MIDI Out-tracks. I really wish it had more, and more of a straight forward way to control all the other boxes at once.
Using Maschine will eventually be pretty good for the task, I think, but for now it’s having some MIDI Out troubles (which will hopefully be fixed for next software release). In that you can easily assign one track of every Elektron box to it’s own group on the Maschine.
You can also use some sort of MIDI-interface, and have one of the boxes as the dedicated MIDI clock center, have it send program changes and song pointer information and whatnot to the other three boxes. It works, but it’s a bit of a tedious process if you want to use all of them together. Especially song mode can get a bit messy, in my opinion.
A little mixer will get you a long way as far as audio routing is concerned though.
I’m not quite sure what it is that you want to achieve (be it transitions or a better routing). However here is the way I have my stuff set up as that might be helpful…
MIDI out from OT to - MnM - A4 - Tetra
Tetra goes to A4 Audio in (left and right). A4 audio out goes to OT in A+B. V-Synth audio out goes to MnM audio inputs and MnM goes to OT in C+D. Thats 4 synths all going to the OT.
I let the A4 sequence itself (although sometimes I do sequence form the OT). The OT midi sequencer sequences the Tetra and 5 Tracks from the MnM (one track is always a thru for v-synth) so thats 6 midi tracks which leaves me two more to play with (program changes or two tracks to tetra etc). V-Synth is only used for sampling and occasionally playing in live phrases, I don’t plan on lugging it to any gigs anytime soon.
I use google keep to remind me of whats doing what. I take photos of the screens to make sure I am using the right patches etc so I can look them up later. Make notes on what gets tweaked where and rehearse just like you would if you were a guitarist in a band. Make sure to save the patch with the midi track for recall later.
As for transitions I don’t use them. I’m not a DJ and so I don’t feel the need to mix songs. I like having a track that has a start and a finish. That’s just me though so for transitions this set up might not be much cop, I don’t really know.
I’m happy enough with the routing, which isn’t too different from yours Nedavine; I used to use a small mixer but I found it wasn’t necessary. I’d prefer not to add any more gear or a computer if I can help it, but that’s partly because I don’t fully understand how those other methods work yet
My music of choice is dub and dub techno, but my grooves often turn into something else, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing.
Composing a song isn’t really the problem. My goal, I guess, is to find a way to smoothly flow between songs or patterns, dropping and introducing elements in a natural way while using all of the external gear. Is this where midi sequencing is useful? That’s something else I need to come to grips with. I know I could just sample everything into the OT, but it would seem to make the external gear a bit redundant. I recall that this was brought up in another thread. So many questions, sorry.
I’d recommend to just connect a MIDI keyboard, maybe with a MIDI hub so that you can switch through devices via MIDI channel settings on the keyboard, and start playing some keys. Unmute some tracks, keep other muted and instead play the muted tracks’ machines live (except on the MD where you have to delete content instead of muting).
Simple as that, add’s a lot of fun and smooth transitions or blending in/out of elements!
For some simple looping, you can also just use live recording mode. On the A4, save pattern, delete tracks, live record tracks and reload the initial pattern later on. On other machines, copy pattern, delete content, jam around, load pattern.
I would also not try to do as much as possible with as many machines as possible. In the end, it’s about making music, not about using features.
EDIT: keep your routing as is. you just need a starting point. I’m sure you will be rewiring frequently anyways
One further recommendation: I would use just a few tracks on each machine at a time, e.g., 4 tracks playing on MD, 2 on MnM, 1 on OT, 1 on A4. Even with just one machine, you can easily be doing too much.
Chilling mood, trigger a simple groove, add some percussions with your MIDI keyboard, dance a little to the groove, some chords yeah, swinging swinging, oh more bass please, let’s play it on the keyboard/A4, nice! some OT scenes for variation, but not too much…
I don’t know if that makes sense, but that’s how I do it
Another way to reduce the “gear stress” (only 2 hands for 4+ machines) is to invite a friend and teach him how to use 1-2 machines.
That makes perfect sense, and that’s how I tend to jam too. I prefer to work within the limits of about 8 tracks across all the machines, otherwise it gets too busy. Especially with dub techno I find that less is more. My style is slow and hypnotic.
I’d love to find some like-minded souls in Seoul who share the same passion for electronic music that I have, but until then solo jamming is the way it’ll be.
This sounds like a classic case of being overwhelmed with options. This is a big reason I wanted to stop using a DAW exclusively, and started to get into hardware. The limitations force you to be simple and mindful in your approach, which is a lot more fun than getting lost in a matrix of options.
It sounds like you’re falling into the trap of trying to use every feature and every track of every machine, rather than focussing on what the music actually needs, or the fun of making weird sounds. Easy to do when you have all those super sexy machines winking and blinking at you! Try spending quality time with one or two at a time. I bet you learn a lot more, and will be freed from the idea that your other machines are being wasted if they aren’t all in on the action.
Hmm, but isn’t that a repetition of what I said in my previous post? i.e. limiting myself myself to 8 tracks across all the machines, less is more…
I’m not trying to make use of every feature that is available for my music. Do I want to know HOW to use all the features? Sure, and for that I agree that it’s better to spend time focussing on one or two machines. It’s really just the transitions that I want to get a handle on. I’ll get there. Thanks for all the ideas everyone. My sound cloud account is Molom, but there’s nothing there as yet, hope to change that soon.
Love the idea of using 8 tracks spread across the machines. To take a step in that direction, you could think of the Machinedrum’s 16 tracks as four separate patterns. Create your kit appropriately and use the Mute Mode to transition - even mixing and matching percussion patterns.
This would give you a lot of options - and you might even program a track or two for transition sounds such as a slow whooshing, etc.
That’s a great idea Allerian, I hadn’t thought about it that way.
I just got an awesome deal on an Axiom 49 and I’m trying to see what I can do in terms of midi sequencing on the OT. All those extra faders and encoders are great for having immediate control of individual track levels etc.
Try spending quality time with one or two at a time. I bet you learn a lot more, and will be freed from the idea that your other machines are being wasted if they aren’t all in on the action.