Both Live 12 on the Push and PC/Mac will have new beta updates.
I was unaware.
I though that once official
was released there were no more betas.
Thanks
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You jump in and give it a crack then
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I didn´t understand.
But its frustrating. I spent so many hours reporting bugs, sending and reading logs, implementing workarounds, sending gb of sets… (QA testing and AIV is actually a job) to see that something that should be simple to be implemented is not fixed yet. Most of the code is already done.
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This is a weird one. I saw it and thought “huh, I use rotating rhythm generator in standalone all the time”. But then I went in to try to add a device in standalone and it isn’t there. Makes it even weirder that I usually avoid “collect all and save” with my live sets out of habit because of the thing where it used to create loads of different versions of my max devices, so I don’t think I’m exporting the device with my templates. I guess it must still be there in the pack but not visible.
Can see how the calibration issue would be very annoying, but is it not possible to do it in the box and save as presets for each oscillator or semi modular? Load the preset, use a tuner to set the oscillator pitch and it should be good to go?
And set up preset racks with macros already mapped and additional modulation devices if required? Isn’t true that racks and macros aren’t implemented, you just can’t create them in standalone … but why would you want to anyway? Seems like a massive pain in the ass to me. Some of the stuff is down to max, e.g. the granulator thing.
I guess it comes down to how you want to work, but to be absolutely honest this list seems kinda minor compared to some of the other stuff I’ve seen bothering people to do with midi editing, etc. I get that it’s annoying if you want to insist on 100% standalone and never plug in to the DAW that the device is currently set up as an extension of Live that pretty much assumes you’ll do most routing/patching type tasks in the DAW before exporting.
Maybe that will change, but it would involve adding a lot of UI stuff that isn’t currently there. Doesn’t seem that simple to me, and it seems a bit unfair to be going so hard about a list like this considering that there’s been a lot of progress even in the three or four months that I’ve had mine.
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Blockquote
Can see how the calibration issue would be very annoying, but is it not possible to do it in the box and save as presets for each oscillator or semi modular? Load the preset, use a tuner to set the oscillator pitch and it should be good to go?
Yes. There are a lot of workarounds. Using push3 standalone is about workarounds.
For this I do what you pointed, but it´s a pain since you have to change the soundcard preferences to do it.
Blockquote
And set up preset racks with macros already mapped and additional modulation devices if required? Isn’t true that racks and macros aren’t implemented, you just can’t create them in standalone … but why would you want to anyway? Seems like a massive pain in the ass to me. Some of the stuff is down to max, e.g. the granulator thing.
If transferring sets would not be a pain, it would be ok. However if I use this device as a standalone device, sometimes during a sound design session you have not the DAW near. And you can´t easily duplicate a effect chain into another track since you can´t save the Effect chain rack. I´m not even looking forward to set macros.
Blockquote
I guess it comes down to how you want to work, but to be absolutely honest this list seems kinda minor compared to some of the other stuff I’ve seen bothering people to do with midi editing, etc. I get that it’s annoying if you want to insist on 100% standalone and never plug in to the DAW that the device is currently set up as an extension of Live that pretty much assumes you’ll do most routing/patching type tasks in the DAW before exporting.
That´s how I´m using it. But it´s not the promised thing. Transferring sets is a pain, sometimes fails during the process, is slow (several gb per set) and when you forget something or set something wrong you have to transfer it again…
So, yes we are using that way, as a extension of the DAW, as a performance machine where you have almost everything prepatched… but it was intended to be a standalone device.
Let´s see how this device evolves, but I won´t be participating on reporting bugs anymore. I´m tired. I think Ableton tried to do something over their possibilities.
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I´m, not trying to rant over. I`ve been actively helping people to workaround since the Push3 standalone release date.
I´m just a developer giving my POV during my beta testing participation after a lot of time spent in the bug reporting.
Also this device is pretended to be something professional I use it for my work and the state it was released was a joke, so I don´t understand why a opinion is not accepted. Has been improved thanks to people who bought it reporting actively bugs.
I won´t participate here anymore. I´m not looking for a moderator intervention.
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Yeah look, I’m just going to have to disagree with you here. When I compare where Push 3 including standalone mode is compared to other gear I went in on early like the Rytm and MPC Live, it comes out very well. Especially considering how much more complex it is by comparison.
I’d actually planned to hold off on getting one until at least the middle of this year to allow it to mature a bit, but then the 20% off sale combined with a good offer for my Push 2 made me take the jump earlier and I’ve been pleasantly surprised at how smooth things have been.
Getting past the hyperbole, it works well on its own terms, even if there’s obviously room for improvement in a lot of areas - especially file management as you mentioned. But there are solutions to a lot of the issues that are commonly raised, even though usually it involves doing some patching in the computer. You can just as easily see that as workflow rather than workaround.
I guess there’s still an open question as to whether it’s ever going to be the full fat Live in a box experience with every single function of the DAW available. But as far as I ever understood it, this was never what Ableton promised. And more than that, to my mind it is highly questionable whether that’s even a good idea - it seems likely to me that if they’d gone down that route straight out of the gate people would be complaining about bloat like they have been with the current-gen MPCs, with probably a lot more bugs and issues into the bargain.
Anyway, everyone’s entitled to their view. This did give me a prompt to go and do a long-overdue review and update tidy up of my presets and racks with a view to relying less on fully built sets as my starting point in Push, so that’s all good.
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I don’t feel conned, it’s ok and I bought what I bought, but I do feel standalone is more incapable of standalone work than I expected. Still no song arrangement tools. Lots of things incl external controller knobs can’t be set up. Etc.
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This may be something to do with the gen/tran params working on a global/project level rather than on the individual clip level. So, setting and changing the gen/tran settings in one clip is also mirrored across all other clips in that project, which would in turn mean that mapping a controller to any of these params would just end in a confusing mess. I’d love to be proved wrong on this as I was anticipating the midi tools working on a clip level and the fact that they do not is kind of a bummer for how I like to do things.
For me, there are a few obvious things lacking, like the ability to change the default collection names, or being able to map the LFO, or the External Effect in/out, but I’m sure those are coming. And not being able to change the default set is nuts.
Otherwise, I think the Standalone is great. It’s surprisingly different from using it as a controller (which I also love), and focusses me in a different way. Right now I’m still getting my setup in place so there’s a lot of back and forth as I create racks and map macros, but it’s already made all of my other hardware obsolete, for now.
I’ve said this before somewhere, but if Elektron added the ability to deep-program the Octatrack from a Mac/PC app, and save the results to the hardware, then it would be seen as revolutionary. And yet when the Push does this, everyone complains that it’s not a full DAW in there.
First, I don’t see why you’d even want a full daw in a box when laptops exist and are way better at it. Second, a few moments thought shows that there’s no way to put all of Ableton’s features into the Push without seriously compromising the UI.
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I hope that will add Groove Pool at some point. For me the biggest downer of P3 standalone in it‘s current state.
Finally got Ableton 12 on my Push 3 SA. I think it further just proves to me that the Push 3 standalone needs a significant overhaul.
Preface: I do think it’s still a great piece of hardware, especially as a controller. I think it makes the most sense as a live performance tool rather than a production tool.
The things that are rearing its head at me now is when working with Meld and you’re selecting the macro oscillator it doesn’t even show the full name of the oscillator in a lot of cases. It gets cut off. It makes it feel like a second thought. When working with a computer in front of you it’s not that big of a deal but isolated from that and glancing what the experience is like on a Syntakt, for example, it’s night and day.
And with Roar as well it just feels like navigating the plugin in a way that I would find more satisfying just doesn’t exist. It feels kinda clunky to me on the hardware and to be honest, most of the things do.
Both are great new additions to live. I think Meld is far more interesting than Minifreak or Microfreak and Roar is the most interesting distortion plugin in a LONG time. The level of control you have over multiband processing and side band and the feedback and the type of shaping… it’s incredible. It just feels like a little bit of a chore to use on Push 3 standalone.
I do think I need to reset my brain when using it in standalone. Because I know ableton pretty damn good I keep wanting to do similar sound design things that I would do there, but on Push 3 SA. Obviously for the most part it’s possible but it doesn’t feel convenient. Where when I look at Maschine and using that platform for just as long, I literally NEVER needed to look at my computer while using it. Everything for the most part felt like it was built for the hardware, not the hardware being built for the software the way Push is.
I need to think that I should just stick with using presets and tweaking those and getting rough ideas out of Push rather than try to go all in on adding complex effects chains and stuff. Push 3 standalone is definitely a capable machine at writing songs, don’t get me wrong. Writing patterns and building up scenes and working with preset sounds and drum kits is all easy, it just falls apart for me when I want to, say, make a complex Instrument rack or even editing some of the more parameter heavy synths and plugins.
But… even though I haven’t done it a lot, there is something to be said about having ableton in a box on a battery powered device that I can bring out of my studio and work on. I don’t own a laptop so tools like this are really cool for me, in theory. And it’s still got the best suite of synths and sounds in a standalone workstation type device.
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I’ve been thinking about this a lot too, ever since I upgraded my Push to standalone with the kit.
I really like that I can use it without a million cables, but I think that the Push 3 really shines when used alongside Ableton. You can quickly add devices, samples, etc, rename things, move them around, and go deep, fast with Ableton, while using the Push for what it’s best at: MPE, clip launcher/recorder. making clips, etc.
I agree totally that the Elektron experience is a lot better. Just being able to quickly assign an LFO to anything is fantastic. But the way the Push works with Live is so nice, and makes so much sense, that I’m not using my Elektron boxes much.
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Has anybody tried to use live 12’s performance Pack on standalone? On a earlier beta I was trying to use the “recall” function controlled by an external controller but I was having inconsistent results. Thank in advance.
Ps- not sure if it’s recall function but it’s the equivalent to reloading parts/ kits-yes on electron workflow.
Very disappointing that the Push 3 Standalone firmware update didn’t make the Push 3 very much more Standalone.
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I’ve been patient about the shortcomings so far and am likely to judge them based more on what they manage to add to Push in the next 6-9 months. I wasnt surprised we didnt get too much in conjunction with the initial v12 dev & release. So I’ll judge them on what gets added in .x releases of 12.
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Same here. It’s still a great groovebox and I get a lot done on it.
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My non-standalone Push’s firmware says 1.9.73, but I see there’s a 1.2.2 firmware available from https://www.ableton.com/en/download/archive/. Do I need to do something to get my Push to update?
UPDATE: Since I posted 1 day ago, there’s now a Push 3 2.0 download available at Ableton’s archive, so I can manually update.