Working with multiple meters and tempo divisions can get rather complex though and a tad confusing.
Another thing to explore is the retrig functions in the OT which can work like a clock divisor per step and create ratcheting effects more commonly associated with analog step sequencing (ratcheting was a definitive trade mark sound of Tangerine Dream on many releases and used quite often on melodic passages).
This for example was done with the MD and a Multitrack Monomachine (before I had two units) - the melodic interaction in the second half was largely created by clocking the same melodic lines on the MnM at half tempo and playing them over the top of the ones played at standard tempo.
So when you think of polyrhythmns donāt just think of beats as the technique can lead to some wonderfully quirky and unique melodic play.
Never heard of anything called polymeric programming.[/quote]
Itās all about compound time signatures [dumb chemistry joke].
But seriously, great ideas and great music on this thread! Thanks, everyone!
Wow, I have to say that this clip was truly great!
Normally, I donĀ“t think anything at all about polyrhythmns. You could say that that would be the problemā¦
I just play (main instrument: guitar). Funny thing is that my drummer tells me whenever IĀ“m coming up with some (picking)figure, what it is time signature and all. And IĀ“m always like: āuuh, okā¦?!?ā (not understanding much and not really caring too much either).
I just play something that āfeelsā natural/musical. Which in example can be me altering between playing the full figure and then playing an broken/shorter version of it against the base tempo/time signature. Pretty much always with delay in use (which can be in another time signature).
Many would say that you can hear U2 (the edge) being a huge influence in my playing. But IĀ“m more like: great minds thinks alikeā¦
I have listened to U2 since early teens (34 now), and played guitar all these years as well. But I canĀ“t play a single U2 song (not interested in learning that), but yet I have a very similar palette of sounds and expressions.
The way that pages and track lengths are set up on the Octatrack is almost like Elektron either do not understand poly rhythms or do not want users to step out of 4/4 time (Ok, Iām kidding, but it certainly could be improved)
It would be far more intuitive to have the first number as amount of steps per page, and the second as the number of pages, then to cater for odd number of steps have a last step parameter, on the rare occassion that you might want that. Or just add an option in preferences for the old non intuitive way, or the easily visualised way
Or even better yet, have the option to turn steps inactive in each page perhaps in a similar way that swing and accent etc are accessed, but then if doing that you might as well also add a chance parameter so that steps can have some random probability
It depends on what youāre after.
Start off by simply using standard timing and different step lengths per track.
Your better off understanding the programming of a straight polyrhythm before you get into polymeric programming.
Just remember that every 4 16th steps are a crotchet (quarter note)
So by setting one track to say 16 steps and another to 25 steps you have 4/4 and 6/4 combined.
When dealing with poly metric timing youāre usually best to start of working in easily divisible multiples 1/2 or 1/4 or x 2 for starters so that you can get something that is half the speed, double the speed and a quarter the sped of the master tempo of another track.
A simple example of this is using DānāB breaks at x2 on a 90BPM track so that your bass and pads for example clock in at 90BPM but your drums scuttle over the top at 180bpm - then you could create a melody playing an odd number of steps say 29 for 7/4 and slow that down to 1/4 for 45BPM riff.
These will loop around each other and essentially have different points of rotation so they will sound similar but not always the same on each repeat.
The 3/4 and 3/2 divisors act like triplet 8th and triplet 16th sub divisions per quarter note and donāt always gel well with a straight up time signature.
Generally on a unit like the OT Iāll keep working on the basis that each for steals in a quarter note and work out how many 16th steps I need for 4/4, 5/4,6/4 etc I may need. By halving it each step lasts for a 8th note (quaver) and doubling means each step his a 32nd note (hemisemiquaver).
By using my 2 Monomachines and my A4 in this way I cam quite easily get pretty intricate results very quickly.
On something like an RS7000 you could define your phrase lengths in measures and add a time signature for each phrase as well as a metric divisor which get s a whole lot more complex.
Using a more simplified method first (and technically a poly rhythm will usually be in the same tempo with a different rhythmic count) you can get very complex sounding material when you donāt place notes on obvious accent, down or up beats.
Generally I love the combo of 7/4 and 4/4 or 15/16 and 4/4 on a more complex sequencer but as stated start of simple and go from there.
This track of mine is a prime example of what the OT can do just using variable step counts per track over both the internal sampling engine and midi. It can get quite wonky pretty fast.
Can you, for example, set a track with 11 steps all spread equally across 32 steps? So that those 11 steps will be evenly spaced and loop every 2 bars of 4/4?
Not in the sequencer. You would have to sample and time stretch.
The OT sequencer is basically polymetric: tracks can have different lengths in terms of number of steps. The only option for polyrhythmic sequencing is to use a tempo multiplier (of which there are a limited set) on a track. See page 94 of the manual.
To get the effect you want you would have to make the master pattern length to be a multiple of 11 (say, 44), and sub-divide each trackās 44 trig steps into the time intervals you want.
Donāt forget you have microtiming with the OT, so you can pretty much move notes wherever you want them. In the case you described itās just a matter of working out how far to space them apartā¦ Simple math. Check out this thread Polyrhythm Table for Micro Timings (Triplets, Quintets, etc.)
Hey there, I am trying to rebuild a song that runs a 40/48 step pattern on DN and AF and 16/16 steps on DT. Is there any way to achieve this on OT?
I know I can set the track scales to 40/48 and 16/16. But there is no value of the master track that works for both or can I define two different master scales for tracks?
As the name implies it, a master track is for the master. I guess you need to check if you can get what you want by playing with the subdivisions of the tracks and maybe adjust tempo accordingly.
For your example i would try to set master at 320 and each track playing at 1/2 with doubled tempo. Iām struggling as well though so donāt take it for granted but it may be worth giving a try.
The Elektron boxes are so much 4 to the floor oriented that the possibilities they introduced regarding poly rythms are a PITA to use.
Thanks! Yeah, so it basically comes down to maths and finding the smallest number that when divided by 64 and 40 spits out a number without decimals, right? Will have to adjust pattern change behavior then, but should work. If there is a more elegant way, please let me know .
Great, i was looking for it but could not find it.
Thatās just simple maths: you need to find a common number for your tracks lengths: here it is 40 x 16 = 640. Since it is higher than what the OT allows IIRC, i divided by two to keep the ratio. Then you have to play with the tempo of each track so the pattern can unfold until its end.
The tool to calculate is very handy when you want to use more than 2 different track scales, can be harsh to calculate. The huge downside of the OT is that it doesnāt turn off the last trigs of a page when you lower scale track number. To figure out the first beat or just the offbeat is a nightmare like that.
BTW we speak about polymeters so far, poly rythms would imply micro timing, just the idea is giving me a headache.
Edit: you can check this out if you are not afraid
Heās confused in this video about what polyrythms and polymeters are, he turned things upside down.
Polymeters have the same first beat, itās like squeezing 4/4 and 7/8 within the same unity of time.
Polyrythms get offset, they will need a common denominator to restart together. In the case of 4/4 and 3/4 they will offset until the 12 steps then restart the cycle.
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! Recommends 320 step master scale as well.
