Playing Techno and House Live

dubathonic · 2014-05-07T16:14:58.000Z

""jaalmadakan"":

I personally compose all my patterns in advance, using the Octatrack and Machinedrum like a super 24 tracks groovebox. Synths are either single-notes (basses, chords, etc.) either 4 bars loops (pads, fx-s, ambiences) sampled from various sources. One thing that is very important for me is that the liveset tracks are composed and produced with live performance in mind. I don’t “adapt” studio tracks for live, it’s made for live from the ground up.

Then my actual perforamnce is about playing with mutes, scenes and effects to recreate cool arrangements.

…I do basically the same thing.

As you say, it’s admittedly hard to get track elements sounding good enough for public consumption right from the start. I perform in clubs where the crowd expects DJs and doesn’t really care that I’m trying to do something different. My goal is to sound as good as a DJ spinning professionally produced tracks and if that means I need to do a lot of advance prep, that’s my price of admission.

My feeling is that I’ve still got a great deal of latitude for improv within this context, though. I rehearse compositions so I can perform them in different ways; I don’t always bring in all the elements I have prepared, and I use the OT’s track recorders to grab pieces of grooves and mix them in over other tracks later in the set, the same way a DJ would with two turntables.

MDM · 2014-05-07T16:56:59.000Z

""nirun"":

the only secret is time. learn the tool like an instrument. jamming/improvising with guitarists taught me that you eventually teach yourself how to use these things proficiently with out too much “djing”.

i prefer to wipe all patterns and start from scratch each time, with some of the sounds and samples I am comfortable using through experience pushing the sounds to good and bad places.

watch and learn…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2PtPBOmh1s

man is this you? nicely musically!

Dawid · 2014-05-07T17:34:12.000Z

[quote=“” dubathonic""]

, and I use the OT’s track recorders to grab pieces of grooves and mix them in over other tracks later in the set, the same way a DJ would with two turntables.
[/quote]

Could you elaborate on that?

nirun · 2014-05-07T17:41:17.000Z

""MDM"":

[quote=“nirun”]the only secret is time. learn the tool like an instrument. jamming/improvising with guitarists taught me that you eventually teach yourself how to use these things proficiently with out too much “djing”.

i prefer to wipe all patterns and start from scratch each time, with some of the sounds and samples I am comfortable using through experience pushing the sounds to good and bad places.

watch and learn…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2PtPBOmh1s

man is this you? nicely musically![/quote]
hahaha I wish dude’s got skillz and i have a long way to go but i do think good research, and watching their techniques (Dataline for instance) is a way to speed up the process a bit

dubathonic · 2014-05-07T18:15:27.000Z

[quote=““Dawid””]

dubathonic:

, and I use the OT’s track recorders to grab pieces of grooves and mix them in over other tracks later in the set, the same way a DJ would with two turntables.

Could you elaborate on that? [/quote]
Sure, though if you’re unfamiliar with track recorders I’d recommend a look at the manual. They are one of the ways the OT offers to grab loops on the fly.

The basics: You assign one of the OT’s tracks to be a track recorder and then route audio – some combination of the OT’s other tracks and the instruments run into its inputs – to it. This way you can capture about 4 bars of audio in real time and save it to memory, and later you can assign a track to play it back if you choose.

pmoldzio · 2014-05-07T18:32:47.000Z

@dawid
I use the Cue of the OT when i improvise a melody before i put it i the mix.
What works best for me is to mute some Steps on the initial sequence and bring 'em Back in time after time. This Way i know the result will “fit”.
Besides that: muting and unmuting often reveals sounds i didn’t expect there to be.
Did only a 30-40min live performance for now (and mostly for my friends).
Faaaaar away from performing in a regular club.

MK7 · 2014-05-07T22:13:43.000Z

Just playing patterns and tweaking mutes and params is nice, but I’m bored of it. Of course, it also depends on the stage/DJ desk: are you positioned in the background or visible to everybody? Gigs with, say, 70% patterns, 30% played live (new phrases played on the A4’s keyboard, drum programming) of last year:

“Even More Live”, that’s our strategy for 2014. For me, that means that there have to be 1-2 MIDI keyboards and/or things like Akai MPX8’s in use. As some of you discussed, you need more than 2 hands, that’s why we’re 2-3 guys. There are several ways to use a keyboard: You can do it as Dave Clarke and use it to fire loops, or use it to play drums/melodies live. I prefer the second.

An example for an improvised practice set, about 20% patterns (e.g., kick/snare), 80% played live as in a band, plus live sampling:
https://soundcloud.com/marc-und-moritz/lichterkette
Does it make that much difference soundwise? It’s definitely much more fun.

Octatrack + Akai MPX8 (909 drums+FX) + bass guitar (!) + MIDI keyboards + Ableton Push sequencer and the built in keyboard

One good technique to play melodies live, make sure that the sounds are okay and be safe in case of a lack of creativity is to have patterns prepared in advance, trigger the sounds of these patterns via a MIDI keyboard but keep the sequencer stopped. That’s how I use my A4 now (not: the A4 is not in use in the improvised example above, so there’s still something missing).

Dawid · 2014-05-08T12:51:37.000Z

""pmoldzio"":

@dawid
I use the Cue of the OT when i improvise a melody before i put it i the mix.

Hello!

Is Cue a function where you can hear a sound from a track without it going out through the main outputs? I just noticed there are two “cue outputs” on the back. If you have headphones put in there, does that mean you can hear something in your headphones without the audience hearing it?

That would be awesome.

Dawid · 2014-05-08T15:11:54.000Z

How does Dataline perform live? Is he using ready-made patterns or does he make stuff on the fly?

I’ll look at one of his live sets today!

pmoldzio · 2014-05-08T15:35:32.000Z

[quote=“” Dawid""]

[quote=“pmoldzio”]@dawid
I use the Cue of the OT when i improvise a melody before i put it i the mix.

[/quote]

Hello!

Is Cue a function where you can hear a sound from a track without it going out through the main outputs? I just noticed there are two “cue outputs” on the back. If you have headphones put in there, does that mean you can hear something in your headphones without the audience hearing it?

That would be awesome.[/quote]
Yep:
Just put a headphone in.
Whatever Track you wish to mute: press the Cue Button and the Trackbutton. Voila (works for the Inputs as well)

pmoldzio · 2014-05-08T15:39:40.000Z

Cue not Mute i mean,

BTW: the Cue Outs are for your external Mixer. You can setup your headphone Signal (Cue\Master-Ratio) in the Mixer section

elenacortes · 2014-05-08T22:44:01.000Z

I think that if you want to do your live in total improvisation you Must really perfectly know you machines, your kit or synth sounds. It’s possible.
the easiest consist in preparation of patterns and sounds wich allow you large amount of tweaking possibilities with reasonnable and unboring vafiations in view to make public have a good time listening to you.

i remember an interview of Autechre in witch they declare that the stuff was ready before concert and they just ad variations to the sounds and routines (at the period when they play live with MD & MnM).

Dawid · 2014-05-09T08:48:03.000Z

""pmoldzio"":

[quote=" Dawid"][quote=“pmoldzio”]@dawid
I use the Cue of the OT when i improvise a melody before i put it i the mix.

Hello!

Is Cue a function where you can hear a sound from a track without it going out through the main outputs? I just noticed there are two “cue outputs” on the back. If you have headphones put in there, does that mean you can hear something in your headphones without the audience hearing it?

That would be awesome.[/quote]
Yep:
Just put a headphone in.
Whatever Track you wish to mute: press the Cue Button and the Trackbutton. Voila (works for the Inputs as well)
[/quote]
That is really amazing news. If I understand this correctly, I can prelisten to everything I will perform on my OT, as well as on the synths I plug into the OT inputs. This is super, super, super. Thank you!

brucewayne · 2014-05-09T09:02:01.000Z

one of my favorite livesets is gardland playing on the boiler room. basically they use premade elements (sounds, kits, ect) and jam with them. if you know the record, you will recognize some elements, but basically it’s pretty much improvisation.

Dawid · 2014-05-09T09:37:26.000Z

[quote=“” elenacortes""]
I think that if you want to do your live in total improvisation you Must really perfectly know you machines, your kit or synth sounds. It’s possible.
the easiest consist in preparation of patterns and sounds wich allow you large amount of tweaking possibilities with reasonnable and unboring vafiations in view to make public have a good time listening to you.

i remember an interview of Autechre in witch they declare that the stuff was ready before concert and they just ad variations to the sounds and routines (at the period when they play live with MD & MnM).
[/quote]

The goal will be to even do the patterns on the fly, so as to be as live as possible. I know that if I start to plan one thing in advance (like a few patterns) then I am going to start to want to pre-plan more and more to get everything as perfect as possible. I think that kind of behaviour takes much of the fun out of playing/performing, and adds a lot of stress.

Now I just have to practice A LOT to learn the machines inside and out, and to build up a lot of speed, so things moves and progresses and remains interesting to listen to, even though I (unfortunately) only have two hands.

elenacortes · 2014-05-09T09:53:42.000Z

You’re right if you dig the training. You must Drill over and over.

My experience of improvisation is relative the regular Beefs we made with other electro musicians. I now very well my Elektron machines, made a lot of gigs in my life, but i know that the best improvisations are long time prepared by training, but by kits and sounds allready made, too.

If you prefer, on a bass or guitar or piano, the sound is fixed and then you can improvise with sufficient instrument study. With electronics gear, the possibilities are so numerous that the best way to avoid crash during play is a well prepared set. Not a “play/stop” gig, like playing a record, but a kind of canevas with a large place for improvisation, and a good probability to limit noises or errors that would make your live going strait to the wall.

Dawid · 2014-05-09T09:56:20.000Z

""brucewayne"":

one of my favorite livesets is gardland playing on the boiler room. basically they use premade elements (sounds, kits, ect) and jam with them. if you know the record, you will recognize some elements, but basically it’s pretty much improvisation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hw2HMKF2L-w

This is an awesome performance. Dual Tempest action! Halfway through now.

Thanks for sharing it!

SB-SIX · 2014-05-09T10:12:49.000Z

A tip for cool transitions: Make patterns of different lengths. For instance, have your A4 master scale set to 128 steps (you can still have less steps for individual tracks) and your AR/OT/MD set to 64 steps. When you change a pattern on one of those machines and have them send a program change message, the A4 still runs for another 64 steps.

MK7 · 2014-05-09T13:26:05.000Z

""Dawid"":

Now I just have to practice A LOT to learn the machines inside and out, and to build up a lot of speed, so things moves and progresses and remains interesting to listen to, even though I (unfortunately) only have two hands.

""elenacortes"":

If you prefer, on a bass or guitar or piano, the sound is fixed and then you can improvise with sufficient instrument study. With electronics gear, the possibilities are so numerous that the best way to avoid crash during play is a well prepared set. Not a “play/stop” gig, like playing a record, but a kind of canevas with a large place for improvisation, and a good probability to limit noises or errors that would make your live going strait to the wall.

This. You two describe how I think about it.

Regarding “bass or guitar or piano”: They all have just one “preset” but listening to music made with them can still be entertaining for hours. With electronic gear, there is a temptation to use 1000 synth sounds and 1000 different drum samples, but a handful might be sufficient when you create subtle variations as in crescendos, forte, pianissimo etc. Moog Minitaur

Dawid · 2014-05-09T13:56:51.000Z

MK7: “Regarding ‘bass or guitar or piano’: They all have just one 'preset”’

Haha!

I’ve also started to look at the world through synthersizer glasses. Like, “Wtf, piano? You only have decay and release parameters for the amp envelope? Will attack be added in an update?”

Or, you all know when one sees the numbers 303, 808, or 909 somewhere, on a registration plate or something… I’m like: “How much?!”