Playing keys on other synths through the OT

Elektron Gear Octatrack
#1

I have a question about setting up my keyboard to play through the OT, but I seem to have hit a snag. here’s my whole setup:

All of my MIDI hardware IO is going through a Yamaha MJC8 MIDI patchbay. I have various presets for using different gear as a master (sequencers, DAW, MIDI keyboard). My current patch is set up so that the OT is my master and my Novation Remote SL 25 is set to control that. Then the OT OUT channel is set as the input channels for my Virus, A4, 0Coast, and DN.

Here are my MIDI channels:
A4 - Auto:9, T1-T4:5-8
DN - Auto:10, T1-T4:11-14
Virus C - 2
0Coast - 3

I then have channel templates on my Novation for each synth and track (so 12 in total) that I can flip through in order to play any of the 10 sounds I have set up.

Currently, if I want the OT to pass through the Novation MIDI, I need to assign a MIDI channel on the OT to said channel (so if I want to play the 0Coast, for example, I need one MIDI channel on 3). The nice thing is that I don’t need to have said channel selected when I’m playing the keyboard because it passes right through. M

My question is can I get the OT to pass through any keyboard channel I play on the Novation without having to assign a MIDI channel? I’m 2 short for being able to play all 10 and I’m working on something right now that I would love to be able to have that kind of quick flexibility.

#2

This will only try to explain, how the “passing through” of the OT is organized … I hope that makes some sense …

Generally:

  • The OT can receive and automatically re-route midi-in, which is sent to the auto-channel of the OT
  • re-routing means that what has been received at the auto-channel will be sent out to the midi-channel of the active midi-track.

Example:

  • Auto-Channel of OT is 16
  • a midi-keyboard midi-out is connected to the OT midi-in
  • a couple of machines is connected to the midi-out of the OT
  • one of those machines is synth A and it’s listening on midi-channel 3
  • OT midi-track 5 is sending to midi-channel 3 (synth A)

Now, if the keyboard is sending it’s midi on channel 16 to the OT AND midi-track 5 of the OT is active then the midi output of the keyboard is re-routed to midi-channel 3 and sent to synth A .

A detailed description has section 8.7.3 CHANNELS of the manual.

#3

I 100% understand that and am very familiar with how the OT Autochannel works (not trying to be snarky). It’s exactly that for which I am trying to find a workaround.

I don’t want to have to TOUCH the OT at all when doing my current long ambient piece. I want to be able to change the channel on my keyboard to play the synth I want, but since I need the OT as the master clock, it has to be the output to all my synths through my patchbay.

If I have MIDI T1 set to channel 3, then even if I have another track on the OT selected (audio or MIDI), if my keyboard is set to channel 3, it will play automatically pass the MIDI through to the synth on channel 3. However, if I do NOT have one of the 8 MIDI tracks assigned to the channel I want to play, then my keyboard does not currently pass that MIDI through. For example, if I want to play channel 9, but the OT MIDI tracks are set to channels 1 through 8, then 9 will not play. What I want is for the OT output to double, in this case, as a MIDI THRU. I tried plugging the MIDI THRU from the OT into my patchbay, but then I lose tempo and transport sync.

#4

Nothing snarky here … I think that I misunderstood your question :wink:

I fear there is no direct workaround as you describe your current set-up. At least AFAIK the OT midi concept might not support this.

Just as a matter of fact … the OT as the master clock doesn’t need to be in a daisy-chain of keyboard–>OT–>other gear … technically speaking … to deliver its time-stamp to other gear.

I would suggest to check out, whether some midi-split and midi-merge functionality may be of any help. Would be like a midi-by-pass of the OT auto-channel. Maybe something like this could work …

  • midi-keyboard midi-out --> midi splitter midi-in
  • midi splitter midi-out-A --> OT
  • midi splitter midi-out-B --> midi merge midi-in-1
  • OT midi-out --> midi merge midi-in-2
  • midi-merge midi-out --> to the synths

With this setup the midi-keyboard can control the synths directly using their midi-channels. The re-routing funcionality of the auto channel will not be required - and could be turned off. The OT can send its time-stamp to all synths and gear. The OT tracks and midi-channels are fully functional. Maybe part of this could be done with your midi-patch-bay.

If needed midi-tracks could be de-activated, if the corresponding synth shall only be in command.

Just to be complete. Midi-time-stamp and the start/stop/record midi commands are broadcasted as general data/commands and are not bound to midi channels.

Something not considered is, whether the Novation SL could be programmed to take more control of your setup than sending midi notes and some CCs only. I remember that we can generate user or gear specific controls, but never used it myself. Had it only in Automap mode with my DAW and VIs, though.

#5

In your example of OT with channel 16 and synth X set to channel 3, I would connect the 3 devices to a MDI hub such as iConnect MIO4.
This way when you want to control OT, you choose auto channel, and when you want to play directly the synth X you switch to channel 3.
This doesn’t prevent you to use channel 16 and play the synth X from the OT, so that you can record a sequence.

When confronted t MIDI headache, I found there’s nothing like a MIDI hub. Pretty cheap for the number of hours you’ll use it, once it’s set up according to your taste.

Novation SL mk3 is a very cool keyboard indeed : it goes in Elektron direction (with plocks and such, only lacking the LFOs) and the 2 MIDI outs (+CV) are really welcome.

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#6

I do have a MIDI hub. It’s the Yamaha I mentioned in the first post. Maybe the iConnect has different/better functionality of which I am unaware? Does it allow for one synth to get control from 2 sources? I hate that 3 of the MIDI IO on that thing are on the front. Talk about cable clutter!

Here’s my patchbay setup and channel setup.

patchbay
patchbay.JPG1029×124 33.3 KB

So the the current setup has the all the synths (DN/A4/Virus/0Coast) set to get a signal from the OT on 1. Then the OT gets its signal from the Remote on 3. If I switch the synths to get their signal from 3, then the OT can’t send transport and clock.

I guess the main answer here is that there is no easy way to get the OT to act as a MIDI Out AND a MIDI Thru at the same time without assigning channels on the MIDI side of the OT.

#7

I’m reading the MIO manual now. It seems that I could technically route the both the signals of the OT and Remote to all my gear at the same time, which means I could get get the OT to send clock and transport to everything and the Remote to send keys to everything.

While the Yamaha can be programmed right from the unit, however, it seems that the MIO needs to be programmed with a computer. Is it at least possible to change which routing preset you have from the front panel without the computer turned on? I tend to use all my hardware without my computer turned on. I’d love to be able to change which box is the master with a quick button push as opposed to having to turn the computer on to load a different set of routings.

It seems like I could get away with this type of routing with the MIO since it has the USB hookup.

MIO
MIO.JPG1194×129 36 KB

#8

I think I see, where the problem in your current setup might be.

Just downloaded the Yamaha MJC8 users manual and flipped through the pages. As far as I understand, the MJC8 is missing a “merge” functionality. This would be the case, if it was possible to merge two or more midi-inputs to one single midi-output.

According to the iConnectivity MIO devices we get split and merge functionality. But the device has to be controlled by a computer.

Alternatively you could check out the Motu Express XT, which has also merge functionality AND works as stand alone.

http://motu.com/products/midi/xpressxt_usb/highlights.html

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#9

Excellent. Yeah. The merge is what I’m missing.

#10

Right. So your options are:

  1. sacrifice a track on the OT
  2. merge OT’s MIDI OUT and THRU with a cheap merger box
  3. use an USB hub with merge functionality
  4. use something like the Bomebox which provides routing, merging, splitting, transforming etc.pp. … it’s a kind of OT for MIDI :wink:
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#11

Yes, difference between the patchbay and the hub is that in the hub signals may be (and it’s default) broadcast to all destinations.
Now you can setup some “private channels”, and for this you need the computer.
But for everyday use, it’s totally standalone, even for midi usb :slight_smile:
I use it every day I play, with no computer plugged.

#12

This seems like the cheapest and most useful option for me. Wow. Thank you!

Gotcha. That makes sense, and if transport/tempo sync out on the DN is set to OFF, then it won’t interfere.

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#13

Isn’t the Remote SL able to merge incoming clock with it’s own generated midi?

#14

It might, but then the OT couldn’t also be controlled by the keys.

#15

YThe MIO4 will hold one preset active without a computer plugged in. It’s advantage compared to the MOTU is that’s it can host MIDI from USB devices as well as DIN. This is a very nice feature. It’s a little tricky to set up but it can do merging, as well as advanced features like channel remapping and other neat tricks. With all the merge and USB functionality I find you rarely need more than one routing setup. I have a digitone, rytm, four midi keyboards, two effects units, and a sound module all hooked up to it and they can all play beautifully with each other, clock goes where it needs to and the digitone can record via its auto channel or play back to any of the keyboards or sound modules that it needs. Very useful piece of kit. But be prepared to read the manual and study the routing well if you want something this flexible and functional. I haven’t needed to touch the config once since I set it up though and it works with my DAW perfectly without me needing to switch configs, too. Highly recommended.

#16

Why not? Midi patching sure requires some planning but you set-up isn’t overly complicated.

But it’s a sound advice you use a dedicated midi interface such as the MIO4 mentioned above. I use the iConnectMidi4+ which is it’s bigger brother. Once configured you can use it in standalone mode. Requires some planning too. To access the advanced fuctions such as filtering (you can do really everything you want with these boxes) are only accessible via their legacy configuration software which is a bit clumsy and overwhelming and the new configuration soft on the other hand is to simplified for my needs and still “work in progress” (I hate wizards and “intelligent” stuff that “adapts automatically to my needs”) so there is a small leanring curce at first but overall it’s a great midi router. I have a similar set-up as @delta-c and can confirm his report.