Pickup machines - who is using them?

Elektron Gear Octatrack
#21

I use them to loop my viola. Once I’ve built up a loop in the recorder buffer of my pickup machine track, I assign a flex machine on another track to the same recorder buffer, slice the audio with sample trigs assigned to slices randomly, and then turn on the sequencer to make the flex machine track play the slices. I learned how to do this while trying to imitate abergdahl. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

I wish there was a way to create a slice grid and assign random locks in one short, or at least over MIDI, but alas there isn’t one. I tried the trick of doing these two actions in advance of performing, but sometimes it seems like the flex machine only plays 1 or 2 slices out of all the available slices.

I still occasionally hit the wrong record button so that I end up losing the loop instead of overdubbing new stuff over it, and I also occasionally encounter the dreaded “Dub Rec Aborted” error. I can’t find a solution to this other than to keep practicing…

I have tried using recorder trig sampling as an alternative. It doesn’t seem to work for what I want to do. After I got my sample via the one-shot recorder trig method, that track that sampled won’t let me slice its recorder buffer. I was hoping to use the recorder trig sampling method to sample a phrase as I’m improvising on my viola and then have that sample instantly available to slice, but it doesn’t seem like I can do that without using up another track just to slice.

Abergdahl’s latest trick of sampling the main mix with pickup machines sounds interesting.

#22

I use them quite a bit actually. As per the thread I started regarding Octatrack doubts, it was thanks to the Pickups that I started to enjoy the Octatrack much more. I still don’t really get recording triggers much through Flex machines - something for me to work on - but Pickups I have a lot of fun with.

After stripping back what I was trying to do with the Octatrack in order to learn it better I was using Pickups to build x bar loops of synth patterns from my Miniak. Maybe something like layered pads or an arp along with some basic Miniak drum beat and then using that sample in a Flex machine.

Yes, it is easy to make an arse of things an to accidentally delete the lot but in all honesty, that has happened far less since I got myself up to speed with thing.

Basically, Pickups fill my hardware based desire for Ableton’s Looper and Im happy with that. Maybe that will change once I full understand Flex recording triggers and the likes, I dunno!

#23

if recording trigs do your head in, try manual quantized sampling first. much more intuitive and easier to manage for me in the beginning. I think the manual overemphasizes recording trigs, which seem to me only useful if you want to continuously rerecord something (would love to hear how people use them in that way or others tho). otherwise, arming a one shot recording trig usually feels clumsier and less natural to me than manual sampling.

#24

After regular practice, I can now record and overdub loops on a Master pickup machine track without losing the audio. However, I have had occasional unexpected behavior with a Slave pickup machine. Here are the steps to reproduce the issue:

  1. Record a loop on the Master pickup machine track
  2. Switch to the Slave pickup machine track
  3. Press [AUDIO REC AB] to record a loop to the Slave track
  4. Play whatever you want to record
  5. Press [AUDIO REC CD] to stop recording and begin playback of the Slave track
  6. Press [AUDIO REC AB] to overdub to the Slave loop
  7. Press [AUDIO REC CD] - At this point the loop stops playing instead of continuing to play the loop with your new overdub as you had expected.

My workaround:

Do not overdub more than 2 seconds of audio at a time to the Slave track.

I’ll try investigating some more, like looking at the the TRIG setting for the Slave track. Most likely however, I’ll probably open a bug report with Elektron.

And I’ve been gathering info to write a “how to loop and slice your looped audio tutorial”…

#25

For live looping viola, I found the recording trig method to be functional, but not particularly applicable - musically speaking.

I think I’ll use this feature a lot more though, when I get around to using the sequencer to drive an external synth. Then the recording trig method would make a lot more sense, because I’d be sampling synth audio in time with the sequencer.

#26

I was totally looking forward to the pickup machines when the updated came out. Even got them to work in sync somehow after a kind of confusing setup. But the lack of undo sadly makes them unusable for me. I got back to recording to several tracks for a pseudo looper feel.

It’s actually really sad because if they worked a little more like a traditional looper, it would enhance the possibilities of the OT a lot.

#27

A traditional looper like the Line 6 DL-4? I have one, and it doesn’t have undo.

#28

OK. The loopers I used so far had undo. Granted I always looked for that feature. But there are quite a few loopers with undo out there.

#29

Yes there are. The only one I’ve had with undo was the Gibson Echoplex Digital Pro.

The others I’ve had do not have undo: DL-4, EHX 16-Second Delay Reissue

There’s a workaround to “fake undo” on Octatrack that involves using multiple pickup machine tracks, but that was posted to the old elektron-users forum and I’m too lazy to search for it.

#30

As I can read here not undo for the pickup machines…
And I c’ant find how the first Pickupm without it’s the bmp master…

Actually I use a Flex machine using the same buffer as the Pickupm…it works, but it c’ant take all the lenght of the loop if it’s too long…

I have the octatrack since one week only, so I have to learn!

#31

What is the ‘’ option in the LFO section under the ‘playback’ parameter. It seems like it may be like a rate control (something not offered in the playback page)?

#32

It’s to assign the LFO to Parameter D. In other words, nothing, because there is no parameter D.

When you assign LFO Destinations, you are telling the LFO to target parameter X on page N

X corresponds to the parameter (A to F) on page N (Playback, Amp etc)

LFO settings exist and occur regardless of the machine that is utilised. By changing the machine, you change the effect of the LFO, there is no independent setting for each LFO for each machine/track type.

For example, there is only one LFO destination for LFO1, regardless of the machine type utilised. You do not assign LFO1 to modulate the Playback Pitch target of the Static machine… but rather you are telling LFO1 to modulate X (i.e. Parameter A) of the first page i[/i]

#33

Just started giving them a second look recently. I built a 10 button midi pedal to control the OT handsfree and have been using it with guitar through fx as input.

So far so good for looping guitar layers on a few tracks and moving up and down between tracks.

Next step is to broaden out to use 3 or 4 OT tracks of live guitar + some prepared stuff on the other 4 tracks to sync in on the fly.

I don’t have a clear picture yet of how well this will work as I see a few complaints on this forum about bugginess and tempo detection being poor but have yet to move on to that stage myself. Also it might lack UNDO. Some of the midi control names are a little confusing for foot pedal operation, but I guess it just takes practical testing to see what they actually do.

OT seems to have the potential to be the ultimate looper … I hope elektron focus a bit more on this area as it is brilliant for creativity if you play a ‘real’ instrument and want to use foot control.

So far, main complaint is that the OT screen doesn’t have a footpedal mode where the screen magnifies the little P+ Pdot etc characters so you can better see what the OT is doing if you are playing guitar a few feet away.

From some limited experimentation so far I suspect I will feel I need more OT commands/macros to be midi controllable.
(save a track recording as a ‘keeper’ with an automated name using a single pedal button press for example would be nice)

#34

I just tried that. Brilliant idea.

#35

So, an Elektron newbie here. Got an Analog Keys recently, have been loving it and mastered the functionality pretty quickly.

Now, seriously thinking of getting an Octatrack, but I would really need the following functionality and hoping someone can help answer if this is possible:

  • I’m wondering if by setting up a record and playback trig on the same step, and setting up the overdub gain (or attenuation) to a negative value, one can create evolving, decaying textures of greater than 20 seconds in length. I suppose this would be called “continuous overdub” technique. Sorry if this has been brought up before, I’m just looking for a definite answer!

  • The end result I’m looking for is a recreation of a very long delay with control over “feedback”. This is a technique used by Brian Eno and many many ambient musicians these days. My wife and I use this technique for ambient guitar/bass/rhodes/cello.

We currently use multiple Strymon El Capistan and Akai Headrush (one for each instrument) to get ambient polyrythms of 20+ second delays with several repeats. If this is possible, I could sell all my fancy pedals to buy a Octatrack!

Thanks guys :slight_smile:

#36

Alright so I think I answered my own question: you can’t setup a record trig on a pickup machine track…

So, this prevents continuous hands-free overdubbing with gain reduction of each consecutive loop :frowning:

My brain says the proposed workaround would be to setup a midi sequence which would send out a midi note at the beginning of a sequence to re-engage overdub…(I believe it’s midi note 69?). One could send this out from another sequencer, but my question is, could you set up this midi sequence on another track within the octatrack and connect a midi cable from the midi out -> midi in of the octatrack?

Again, not an octotrack owner yet, so any input from an octotrack owner willing to test this workflow is so so so appreciated!

#37

you can set up a record trigger on a pick up machine.

and pickup machines do have a gain function which will reduce the volume with each generation of the loop.

#38

Wow…well, so much misinformation online then. Thanks for confirming.

Sorry to be a pain, but can you confirm that my proposed workflow would work and you’d have to be doing something wrong for it to screw up? Thanks again…

#39

FYI, misinformation came from the other thread on pickup machine and also this old forum post from elektron-users.com in 2012. I guess pickup machine has been updated to allow for record trig and seqeuncing? Cause even the manual says it can’t…soooo confused.

Response in 2012 Thread Copied Below:

http://elektron-users.com/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=2&func=view&catid=9&id=196684

For anyone interested I submitted my question to Elekton and got a helpful answer which clarifies things. If i were to suggest improvements on the machine on this basis my main one would be to allow monitoring of audio inputs on the track level of the flex recorders. Also allowing trigs for pickup machines somehow… See Elktron’s comments below.

"Hi Dave,

I tried to answer your questions below:

1- Unfortunately, TRIGS can not be placed in the sequencer of the Pickup

Machine track.

#40

And page 55 of the manual suggests that its not possible as well:

Pickup machines are not possible to sequence, nor
parameter lock.

And page 51 as well:

TRIG offers three different approaches to the sampling process. This setting also controls
how a Pickup machine assigned to the track will work.
• ONE will make the recorder, once the sampling process is initiated either manually
or by recorder trigs, sample according to the length set by RLEN. The sampling pro-
cess is restarted when pressing [TRACK] + [AUDIO RECORD]/[MIDI].
• ONE-2 will make the recorder, once the sampling process is initiated either manu-
ally or by recorder trigs, sample according to the length set by RLEN. The sampling
process can be stopped prematurely by pressing [TRACK] + [AUDIO RECORD]/
[MIDI].
• HOLD will make the recorder, once the sampling process is initiated, sample for as
long as the [TRACK] + [AUDIO RECORD]/[MIDI] buttons are pressed and held,
given they are not pressed longer than the time frame of the RLEN setting allows.
The outcome of the sample depends on if manual sampling or recorder trigs are
used.
When sampling through the use of a recorder trig, the trig will capture only silence as
long as [TRACK] + [AUDIO RECORD]/[MIDI] are not manually pressed. An exam-
ple: a recorder trig with an INAB setting of A+B, TRIG set to HOLD and with an
RLEN setting of 16 is placed on the first step of the sequencer. [PLAY] is pressed to
start the sequencer. When the sequencer reaches step 4 [TRACK] + [AUDIO REC
AB] is pressed and held and just before the sequencer reaches step 6 the button
combination is released. The recorded sample will then consist of 3 inital 1/16th
notes of silence, 2 1/16th notes of audio and finally 11 1/16th notes of silence.