Phasing ala Reich, Riley, Glass

Is this possible on any Elektron gear? Anyone ran experiments with it?

https://youtu.be/7P_9hDzG1i0

Basically that. Would you have to use a box with microtiming? Set up multiple patterns with just slightly different microtiming and go from one to the next?

I’d like to hear ideas.

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I tried turning the swing track off for t1 and then keeping it on just slightly for t2, but that didn’t get the desired result. And of course it wouldn’t, because this sort of phasing happens over bars and bars and bars. I really think maybe some micro timing where t2 is slightly off more and more as patterns go along could work. Then enter song mode and chain dozens of patterns together?

The only other idea I can think of requires a DAW. Record the loop at desired BPM, duplicate it out over minutes in your DAW, then play the same thing over it but turn the tempo up slightly. Alternatively, if you have two machines… Start them off midi synced, then unplug the midi cable and turn the tempo up on one of them? With this method you can never stop the sequence of course.

Still its a cool sounding patch. I may modify the note selection, create some more patterns with variations and call it an “original composition” :stuck_out_tongue:

I feel like some creative plocking of the delay time and feedback per track may get you more toward the desired results
Are you utililizing the arp?

Using 2 Elektron boxes with nudge like digitakt and digitone could work. Set them to the same bpm (no midi sync). Press play at the same time running the same Melody on both. When you want the phasing to start repeatedly tap nudge on one of the boxes at a certain speed so that it speeds up slightly until the melodies lock into the first shift. Rince repeat.

Think this is the only way to make it sound good as the phasing technique highly depends on human feel to sound good. It would even be best to record the melodies into the sequencers separately without quantization.

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I guess you’ve seen this n it’s an ER101 rather than elektron but I’ll post it anyway cause its really good.

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I tried with OT, works pretty well with a piano loop played on 2 tracks, with 1st trig condition (or one shot), looped enable.
T1 with normal rate.
T2 with RATE set to TSTR, TSTR on.
RATE = +62 (Instead you can aply lfo designer to lower the RATE value)

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I was about to say… Should be pretty straight forward with an OT but that almost seems like cheating lol

I thought about the arp but wasn’t sure exactly what I could do. I suppose instead of a 12 note sequence the arp would contain the notes itself?

I’ve never messed with the arp offset, so maybe there’s that.

Cheating with the OT is when you just sample whatever your trying to emulate, throw it on a static track, press play and act like your doing something… With this technique there’s nothing the OT can’t do… :joy:

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Set CC knobs to EXT, that way you can mess with knobs / crossfader to be more credible, without changing parameters. :tongue:

You’d rather need slightly different arp speed I think. Maybe that’s what you meant.

Maybe not enough notes for you but with OT I’d try a track with one chord with 1st TRC, arp speed 24, another track with one chord with 1st TRC, arp speed 25.
Lfo to lower arp speed increments.

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I like where this thread is going

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It was just about the first thing I tried with the Octatrack - wondered if it would be possible to phase audio the way I had with Max/MSP or dual delays - the technique I preferred was just staggering the loop lengths slightly, I think I’ve documented this elsewhere on Elektronauts but the idea was just to manually start flex recording simultaneously on 4 or so tracks and release the recording on these slightly later than the last (by rolling off the fingers) - this creates seemingly identical loops of differing lengths (no horrid time stretch here) and when they are manually played plays free they phase ( a la reich ) - a lot of fun, shame that the OT is otherwise very tied to the beat (hard to get off-grid without compromises) - fun though as I recall it

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My only issue with this is that what’s written in the piece itself is “accelerando slightly.” That is to say, if one is really trying to replicate the piece (it is “classical” and written down, after all) an increase in tempo seems in good faith :slight_smile:

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I had just watched this yesterday!

Reich has been one of my very favorite thinkers/composers since I was a kid, which was a VERY long time ago :slight_smile: At different points in life I’d tried to emulate ‘that sound’ on electronic gear and it mostly sounded like some dumbass trying to emulate ‘that sound’ on electronic gear! I think the human element is just way too critical of a component because it’s never going perfectly out of phase. I can’t imagine the level of concentration required to pull off those pieces. On the video example I posted, no one is looking at a score. They had to memorize it. Blows my mind.
Like someone else posted, I’ve had the best results using different length loops to get that kinda otherworldly feeling

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Oh yeah it’s really incredible stuff. I can’t imagine purposefully playing out of time with another musician…I don’t even know how you go about practicing that.

There’s this piece I did (what feels like) ages ago that tried to do this minimalism stuff. But it was more with recorded loops than actual phasing.

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Sextet is just about the best piece of composed music ever written imho (i’m not 100% over that particular version above) - over the moon to have seen the great man perform it at the Barbican a fair few years ago

Hooked enough to make my school music buddy and I get a pair of xylophones to phase out on - it’s an amazing experience to do (needs focus) as well as to hear

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That must’ve been a huge thrill! I love the version I posted, but there are other amazing ones for sure and I’m not certain that I have a favorite, because I like the slight variations in interpretation of that piece.
This might be my ‘favorite’ piece with the man himself on piano in 2008. But that could be because it’s the first Reich piece I’d ever heard, followed by ‘Music For A Large Ensemble,’ ‘Octet’ and ‘Tehellim.’

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I watch this Sextet performance about 6 times a year. It’s proper

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Agreed!
It’s funny that most of my friends that I play with in the roots music field have never even heard of Reich and aren’t especially into if they do hear it. It’s nearly the opposite with electronic musicians

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For sure, the stuff on the sticks/bows/keys is beyond reproach - my issue is with the levels and sounds of the stuff on the digital keyboards, especially the lactic acid guy keeping time on the left - it’s a bit too much like a Shaker for me, needs to roll a bit of that off and turn it down a tad - then it’d be more like the SR Ensemble version I am most familiar with for over 30 years - it’s a seminal piece for me and my musical journey

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Though I love that piece and performance, I agree with everything you just stated. Somehow, once I’m immersed in the piece I can filter it out a bit. Poor OP, I fear I’ve helped derail a perfectly nice thread! Apologies :slight_smile: