Those new Roland mini things are stocking fillers, novelties. Nothing more.
They actually regarded the boutiques as a novelty when they first released them, but the boutiques turned out to be really good.
But yes, agree. I wouldn’t recommend a tiny ickle limited knobs my first gwoovebox to anyone.
Something like a Volca is quick and easy to engage with in almost every way.
It’s not a big financial commitment.
It doesn’t take up a corner of your living room.
You don’t even need a power socket.
If it’s not fun on it’s own you can expand as little or as much as you want.
You can transport it and try making noise in various settings.
Maybe not just in the beginning.
Keep in mind different regions of the world have different definitions of affordable, and space considerations, for many people even a 49 key synth would be far too big and/or expensive.
Also knob per function is not to be underestimated for learning. I bet many here have anecdotes about getting more stuff finished with less, when they were starting out too.
Specially at the beginning. Make things too hard and most people would give up pretty quickly.
I started with a Volca beats. And I think I took a good decision. Looking at the new Roland boxes I was not interested in the T-8 or J-6 because I already own the DT+DN (I am not a beginner anymore with Drum machines nor synths). And the E-4 is something that I have an eye on, because I am a beginner with voice fx/manipulation. It has nice functions for a relatively cheap price, which is what i search for in the beginning. And I think that there is market to sell it second-hand, in case I don’t like it or I outgrow it. I know it is not super advanced. But wouldn’t risk for anything more expensive maybe.
I went and wanted to buy a Volca Keys and a Volca Bass I think, “back in the day”, to enhance, what I have with my OG Circuit. Came back with a Minilogue, because I wanted more. Did not regret that decision.
Looking at what was released now, I could see me at least get a T8 and maybe even a J6 for what they bring to the table today. Circuit Tracks, Circuit Rhythm, T8, J6 and an Oxi One, all with internal batteries. Add a PreenFM and a Micromonsta2 to that with a small USB bank, and you have more available than you can handle without a mixer, and everything together fits into a Backpack!
Yea I agree that it’s probably not everyones intention to really learn synthesis or get into big devices with a lot of keys and knobs. I was already making beats and recording guitars for years when I started out on Volcas (Keys and FM) to kind of get a taste of the sounds a synth would get me. For me the Volcas were an affordable way to dip my toes into synths. They sound OK and were easy to tweak and get different sounds from, even if I didn’t really know what I was doing.
A couple of years later my Volcas are gone and I’m on a Digitone, Peak and Mopho Keys, really only started to get interested in learning synthesis when I got the Peak about 3 years ago. But an investment like Peak or even Digitone would have been way too much for me when I was still unsure what a synth would bring me. The Volcas were perfect gateway machines for me 
It’s an interesting talking point.
If the Volcas were around when I first started showing in an interest in electronic music, I probably would have went with/been gifted one. In my local store, the only available synths around the £200-mark (aka a very reasonable limiting factor, what a parent/guardian would happily spend on an off-shoot of a pre-existing hobby) were a MicroKorg and a Novation K-Station and I went with the one that to me felt nicest in use and had more tangible controls.
There are quite a lot of influencing factors on what’s good for a beginner: there’s an obvious intersection between small size and reasonable cost that makes sense for a beginner. For many of us that have been in the hobby a long time, the budget/marketed-to-beginners gear was very different in the 90’s and early 00’s, so I understand the disconnect. It’s easy for us, with experience and hindsight to turn our noses up at low-cost, simple gear but it’s the travelled path for a reason.
Would reiterate that if we’re talking about electronic music gear for kids, then yeah, depending on age, parents dictate/influence the start of the journey, many have suggested that the wee Roland boxes would be fun for them for good reason. When it’s come to friends showing an interest (i.e. adults, disposable income, other musical experience, technical aptitude) then the beginner gear I’ve recommended when asked does differ slightly…but not by that much. A drummer friend is currently quite excited by my wee Volca Drum as a starting point to drum machines, electronic sounds…basically going to leave it with him for a spell but have also recommended that he at least considers the Model:Samples/Cycles, because knowing him and understanding him, I know he’ll love the relative knob-per-function and sequencer once he understands what a sequencer even is! Just saying there’s some truth in what you say too: although there isn’t one true perfect device for each beginner, nor is there a one-size-fits-all go-to, the best starting point can be any number of things depending on the beginner.
I think we can probably agree that it’s quite a good/exciting time to be a learner: lots of options and resources (even YouTube on it’s own, learning resources like Ableton’s browser-based tool, legal routes to sampling etc etc).
A ramble soz.
I don’t think it’s so much about how big or small something is, but about how obscure and menu divey it is.
An MC-101 is quite small, but very divey, a circuit tracks is slightly bigger, but everything is very clearly on the front.
It’s not intrinsically bad for something to be a preset player if people are trying to learn about sequencing and don’t want to end up with their minds blown trying to learn five things at once.
Isn’t the O-Coast a tiny synth?
Forgot one point:
I think there are different approaches to making music for people. There are those, that spend hours working on sounds, and there are others who are happy with presets and just need an instrument to play notes for them.
If you want to deep dive into synthesis, the new Roland stuff isn’t for you, als well as the MC101 or Circuit etc. Maybe Volca Keys?! But you can make tons of tracks with all the presets available on all those devices!
Have to give a shout out to an internet pal of mine CNTR RNDM he does amazing things with PO’s and his videos are banging! free DAFT PUNK samples for your PO-33 (PO-33 kit & PO 133 kit) - YouTube
People used to say Bob Ross got them into painting. Crap paintings but who cares as long as your having fun.
…let’s never forget…vast majority in all this market segment are not people who want to learn anything…they’re in for the fun of it…and only sometimes this fun translates into deeper intrest to take IT to some next level…
pro’s need tools, not toys…but it’s always a long shot and longer journey to become a pro…
and some toys are simply great stuff to work with…to get a clue which ones are “serious” toys and which are just there to tempt ur wallet, hardwired pickpocketeers, takes experience…which, here’s the cycle clsoing in on itself, takes time…
it’s all a learning curve…
Casio VL-1 should be everyone’s first synth.
Great point! Probably less about ‘learning’ to do anything and more about having the freedom to explore and get satisfying results.
Totally appreciate that - perhaps I should have stressed it to avoid appearing as an elitist. Although my suggestions are a bit more expensive I always consider the second hand market - and tbh I think DAW’s and VST’s are perfectly good enough for most people especially with a controller. It’s as much about finding the right VST as it is about finding the right hardware, some will really click and inspire. Something like Maschine is a good shout IMO.
Yea a lot of folks seem interested in the E-4!
I get this angle but I don’t think a lot of the mini synths we’re discussing are really the solution to that problem, they just don’t suffer from it. I wouldn’t recommend someone buy a Novation Peak as their first synth but something like a Model:Cycles would be a ton of immediate fun and no one just buys one volca anyway, so spending a little more to accomodate a whole groovebox seems smart to me. That’s a GOOD beginner hardware recommendation IMO.
Not at all thanks for sharing - having more options now is definitely good, it can make thigns more accessible as well! The volcas definitely get people interested - people can more easily justify the cost but I think it’s often a gateway drug haha
True, good point.
Not for what it is - it’s a few Eurorack modules basically - it just happens to be small. I guess I more mean miniturised? It’s just that whenever anyone releases anythign cheap and small it’s often assumed it’s good for beginners - the cheapness makes sense the smallness always seems incidental.
Defnitely don’t disagree with that people should use and learn the way that works for them - I’m just wondering if the commonly heard suggestions are actually the best ones.
For learning definately not. Too fiddly and menus.
For sure, yea. I was just trying to tell you my personal experience of how I got into synths. At the time there were no Models, and Volcas were all the hype. My journey started trying to find sounds that fit the music I was making and just having fun with it, nothing intentional, just stumbling across cool stuff. Volcas were perfect for that. Probably some of those recommendations you’re talking about stem from dudes like me who started out on tiny synths and just recommend stuff they know worked for them instead of newer machines they maybe never even touched. If I were getting my first machine now I’d definitely look at the Model:Cycles too or maybe even stuff like the Novation Circuit. Those look like a bunch of fun!
Curious about your thoughts about how the Dreadbox Nymphes fits in this conversation about synths for beginners.