Patterns, banks and kits

thatguy · 2014-11-16T15:22:08.000Z

Hi, so here is yet another question about the Elektron saving structure. I have read a bunch of similar threads on this forum already, but they all left out one thing, so im creating a new one…

Ok. Patterns. Each bank has 16 of them. And each project has 8 banks, so that makes 128 possible pattern-variations on each project. Thats a lot. Is so many, that i have decided to separate each song im working on by bank. By this i mean that each bank represents one song for me.

This means that one bank (song) has 16 patters, each using the same sounds. I.e bank A01-A16 are different progressions of the same song. And B01 -B16 is different progressions of another song. This system works logically to me… almost.

Cause when i change the sounds in bank B, the sounds in bank A changes as well. Just the patterns stay the same.

Ok so then I have to think about Kits. One pattern should be linked to one kit, and saved as one kit. Then i can keep the sounds in bank A01 and B01 separate. However, by this logic, i have to save each pattern as a separate kit. Then i will have 16 kits pr song im working on…?

And this is where i fall of the whole thing… Could somebody explain how they work on song, with several patterns in each song, and how they save with the sound when they work on different songs at the same time?

mezz303 · 2014-11-16T15:55:32.000Z

Ok so then I have to think about Kits. One pattern should be linked to one kit, and saved as one kit. Then i can keep the sounds in bank A01 and B01 separate. However, by this logic, i have to save each pattern as a separate kit. Then i will have 16 kits pr song im working on…?

Yes if pattern A02 is using a different sound from pattern A01 then the kit would have to be saved as a different kit.(KitA1,KitA2 ect.) So you could theoretically end up with 16 kits for Bank A if each pattern contained different sounds.

Spreading 1 track over a full bank of 16 patterns would likely re-use kits a few times so I wouldn’t think you would end up with 16 kits per bank working this way.

thatguy · 2014-11-16T17:09:59.000Z

aha…,. So if i save one bank as one kit, and use the same sounds on all 16 patters in that bank, all patters will use the same kit automatically? Then i just need to load the kit correlating to the bank to work on different projects? And remember to save each bank to a kit every time i switch to a different bank?

mezz303 · 2014-11-16T18:10:59.000Z

""thatguy"":

aha…,. So if i save one bank as one kit, and use the same sounds on all 16 patters in that bank, all patters will use the same kit automatically? Then i just need to load the kit correlating to the bank to work on different projects? And remember to save each bank to a kit every time i switch to a different bank?

Yes the patterns load the kits automatically.
A project is a collection of 8 banks with 16 patterns per bank and a collection of kits and settings.
Working how you want to with 1 song spread across 16 patterns of a bank. You will get 8 songs before you have to start a new project.
Not sure how many projects you can have in total but I think its loads.
Im fairly sure you can copy kits and patterns from 1 project to another also.

seenfromspace · 2014-11-16T19:13:58.000Z

“Im fairly sure you can copy kits and patterns from 1 project to another also.”

Now I’d like to know how to do that

mezz303 · 2014-11-17T01:10:40.000Z

Here it is…

Copying patterns between projects Analog Keys/Four

So I just copied some patterns between projects. I first copied each sound in the kit (because you can’t save kits to the +drive it seems) then I copied the pattern, changed project and pasted the pattern. I then reloaded the sounds and saved them as a kit in the new project but the FX track didn’t copy for some reason so I had to take pictures and recreate it. Is there a faster way? I’m glad you could still copy between projects though. It might have been a bit slow but I’m glad it was doable. …

I was wrong about kits tho. It looks like you have to reconstruct them in the new project.

Not particularly intuitive but it can be done.

OB_J · 2014-11-17T02:01:51.000Z

i use basically a bank per song as well but what i do is…

i get my main thing going… like main chord progression and bassline (i also have a linked AR) and then i copy the pattern 16x and save the kit separately to each pattern. so if my beat is called eddie. i end up with eddie 1, eddie 2 …eddie 16 so that each pattern has its own kit saved.

trust me…it will save you headaches in the end.

cuz if you start tweaking the kit… it changes it for all of em

its also easy to make little changes to each pattern and keep it lively

R7 · 2014-11-17T03:52:50.000Z

If you need different sounds per bank, you will need a different kit for as many patterns you have that need to sound significantly different.

It’s easiest to have a different kit for each bank of patterns if all the patterns in a bank are part of the same song and intended to have the same sounds. Then you can p-lock on the individual patterns for variety while retaining one kit.

Or save a kit per pattern but that’s a lot of kits.

Just remember that patterns always store what kit was used for the pattern. So make sure you save the patterns before changing the kit. Otherwise the new kit will be autosaved to that pattern and the pattern will need to be reloaded.

Tapepusher · 2023-04-17T22:53:43.019Z

Hi, a couple questions about patters/banks if you or somebody wouldn’t mind.
Can I clear all the all patterns that are one track in one go? (or even on one bank?) I can clear all notes in one specific pattern (Fn+Clear in Grid Mode) but how about all patterns but only for one track?

Can a bank of patterns be copied to another bank? (reading here on the forum it seems like it’s impossible, just checking)

bodymechanics · 2023-04-17T23:26:26.283Z

You can clear patterns, you can clear tracks (the pattern for that track)

You cannot clear banks without clearing each pattern.
With a little practice you can clear the banks pretty fast just using the clear pattern function

Tapepusher · 2023-04-17T23:40:58.789Z

Ok, great, thanks for clearing that up. I’d like to see bank-wide edit actions, but I’ll survive!

bodymechanics · 2023-04-17T23:42:16.392Z

I’m sure a LOT of people would. More so copying and pasting a bank to another.
Clearing them can take less than 16 seconds.

Tapepusher · 2023-04-18T08:54:41.389Z

Yes, exactly. I mean, at this stage they might as well open-source it and let us write our own shortcuts for them, at least slip a jailbreak exploit out haha

bodymechanics · 2023-04-18T15:41:48.803Z

I imagine that’s much easier said than done.

Tapepusher · 2023-04-19T13:29:34.006Z

You’re probably right. For copying patterns on a track, do you know if there’s any difference between 1. pressing BANK+Trig 1+Copy and then pasting that on another pattern and 2. pressing Fn+Copy (in grid mode) and pasting a pattern that way?

Octagonist · 2023-04-19T16:32:30.999Z

Yes.

Using [FUNC]+[Copy] in Grid mode will copy the current Track, not the Pattern it’s part of. If you want to copy the Pattern (all the Tracks), you have to do it OUT of Grid mode, or use the other shortcut.

The [BANK]+[Trig/Pattern]+[COPY] feels a bit quirky to me. When you do the [PASTE] part of the operation, you have to wait for a countdown (shown on screen) before the paste happens. I’m not sure why it does this when the [FUNC] version doesn’t (you’d think the [FUNC] one would ve easier to make mistakes with…).

Tapepusher · 2023-04-19T19:11:35.017Z

Ah ok cool, so there’s no difference between:
[FUNC]+[Copy] (out of grid mode)
and
[BANK]+[Trig/Pattern]+[COPY]
(except that with the BANK one you have to wait to paste for some reason)

I think it’s absolutely crazy that the manual does NOT define what a “track” is and what a “pattern” is, it just starts talking about how to manage them, and a new Elektron user is left to just start experimenting.

So I appreciate you’re feedback to figure this out!

Octagonist · 2023-04-19T19:16:44.871Z

Tapepusher:

I think it’s absolutely crazy that the manual does NOT define what a “track” is and what a “pattern” is, it just starts talking about how to manage them, and a new Elektron user is left to just start experimenting.

It’s all there on p16.

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Tapepusher · 2023-04-19T19:41:52.207Z

OK, it defines a pattern (my mistake!) but “track”? It seems to be two things, the track sound (parameters set to certain positions) that you can copy (hold track button and copy) and ALSO the pattern just within that track and when you copy this one pattern (Fn+Copy in grid mode) it says “copy track”/“paste track” even though you’re just copying the pattern from that track…

If copying in grid mode said “copy track’s pattern” or something it would make sense to me.

Octagonist · 2023-04-19T20:27:50.640Z

Fair enough. They under-define a Track.

Elektron only refer to Patterns when discussing the set of tracks. They don’t use Pattern to identify the set of trigs on a single Track. Patterns include Arp and Trig settings, and all the Trigs for all the Tracks.

Tracks are the same across all the Elektron devices: Trigs (notes, p-locks, sound-locks, etc), in a “lane”, played by a Sound (or sometimes called a Track Sound). (Actually, the Sound Locks are a confusing deviation from this, ‘cos if you copy a Trig or Track to another Track, it’ll get played by the Sound associated with that Track, except for the Sound Locks, which will play the locked sound. It makes sense, but breaks the Track/Sound split a but).

I can see why you might find it confusing that Track+[COPY] copies the Sound associated with that Track. Perhaps it should be [SND]+[COPY]. However, some of the other instruments they make don’t have a [SND] button, and it’s more convenient they all have the same Track Trigs and Track Sounds edit commands.