Pattern Trigging MD from OT

getsal · 2013-10-11T10:26:42.000Z

""StinkyBeat"":

You are doing it right with setting up program changes using midi notes. Hate the delay in auto change with the MD.

Check the mapping in the MD setup, try setting up the patterns you want to different notes.

Yes but problem is, pressing by keys on OT is working but midi trigger on sequence it doesn’t work. This is the problem.
Yes alternative I can set some other keys, but it is easy to understand that patterns and keys are same position, like 1 to 16.( Also chromatic key mode in OT).
map setting in MD is correct, therefore it works on pressing keys.
But why not on sequence?

drone · 2013-10-11T11:05:38.000Z

If I don’t make mistakes, the only way to trig the MD from the OT AND at the same time to be able to change patterns without waiting the end of the entire pattern, is to use midi notes. You can’t do that with program changes, witch is a serious limitation.

BUT when using midi notes to trig the MD from the OT, I still don’t understand the strange interactions between the project midi page and the pattern page where you set the lenght of pattern before changing (ie: from 2/16 to all pattern).

I really think that Elektron shoud take more time working on this issue, in order to improve the possibilities of its machines during live acts: many livers can’t wait the end of a pattern before changing to another. unless if you play classical electro of ages ( ), you will need use the OT (or the MD) in a more “cut up” feeling (like in breakcore).

(Sorry for my broad English, I’m French).

noxical · 2013-10-11T11:26:38.000Z

Heej, thanks for this thread. I now understand your request and in fact I also face the problem that the MD only chances the pattern at the end of the OT pattern. Currently. I used the arranger/song modes as a work around.

But it would be much easier to arrange “MD patterns inside the OT patterns” instead of using the complicated songs mode.

But I understand from this thread that it is not possible to program this in to the sequencer. You have to press OT midi keys to change the patterns on the MD?

drone · 2013-10-11T12:33:08.000Z

""noxical"":

Heej, thanks for this thread. I now understand your request and in fact I also face the problem that the MD only chances the pattern at the end of the OT pattern. Currently. I used the arranger/song modes as a work around.

But it would be much easier to arrange “MD patterns inside the OT patterns” instead of using the complicated songs mode.

But I understand from this thread that it is not possible to program this in to the sequencer. You have to press OT midi keys to change the patterns on the MD?

Actually, you can play live in pattern mode and change the patterns on the fly on the OT, and the MD will follow without any lag, only if you program a midi note at the begining of evry OT pattern AND also if you send the right midi note (look at the MD Map Editor to know witch note send to change witch pattern). You also need to set the scale (lenght) the pattern will play before changing when you press the trig: it can be done in the project midi page and (and that’s the issue) it also must be done in each pattern page.

drone · 2013-10-11T13:19:41.000Z

I forget 2 important things, in order to make the trig work correctly:

don’t forget to set the midi channel on the track you use to send the midi note to the MD
set the length of the midi note to INF

getsal · 2013-10-12T11:25:21.000Z

Thank you for good information!

I tried both method with midi key note and P. change, after I understand that both have time lag, as MD reacts to chage pattern anyway we have to wiat till current pattern ends. Or maybe do I need to change some settings?

on MDs map editor, I do cue function, the it doesn’t matter how long note. Works as trigger of pattern.

I’ll try other setting like “Start” and GATE…

By the way, your English is quite good and I’m also not native(JPNs).

getsal · 2013-10-12T11:28:22.000Z

With GATE trigging it goes good(immediately change) but sounds bit delay and doubled on the beginning. (Probably result of trigging every time)

fmmmm…

getsal · 2013-10-12T11:48:03.000Z

And also main problem is,

Why not MD react on the note on Sequence on OT correctly?

MD react correct pattern by pressing chromatic key on OT but not react correctly when same key note on sequence.

This is very strange, some Midi issue on OT like known problem with Mbase11?

drone · 2013-10-12T11:50:04.000Z

I use the START setting in the MD, and got no time lag.
There is a minimum time setting on the OT: it’s 2/16. If you use a 2/16 setting, you can change pattern manually on the fly. But it’s risky because sometimes you can be in the wrong measure (the beginning of a pattern on the OT, and the end of the pattern on the MD), because it’s hard to be precise with this setting.
If you use a 16/16 setting, you can change patterns more comfortably, just waiting for the end of the measure and then press the trig during the last 4 bars of the measure. The MD and OT patterns will change at the beginning of the next measure.

Don’t forget to change midi channel in each OT pattern (ie: channel 1 on the OT, if you receive on channel 1 on the MD) , and to valid this setting (with “enter/yes” on the OT), because if you forget it, all the setting won’t work.

getsal · 2013-10-12T11:52:02.000Z

""getsal"":

And also main problem is,

Why not MD react on the note on Sequence on OT correctly?

MD react correct pattern by pressing chromatic key on OT but not react correctly when same key note on sequence.

This is very strange, some Midi issue on OT like known problem with Mbase11?

Resolve this problem.
Key quantizer on arpeggiator.

getsal · 2013-10-12T11:56:24.000Z

""drone"":

I use the START setting in the MD, and got no time lag.
There is a minimum time setting on the OT: it’s 2/16. If you use a 2/16 setting, you can change pattern manually on the fly. But it’s risky because sometimes you can be in the wrong measure (the beginning of a pattern on the OT, and the end of the pattern on the MD), because it’s hard to be precise with this setting.
If you use a 16/16 setting, you can change patterns more comfortably, just waiting for the end of the measure and then press the trig during the last 4 bars of the measure. The MD and OT patterns will change at the beginning of the next measure.

Don’t forget to change midi channel in each OT pattern (ie: channel 1 on the OT, if you receive on channel 1 on the MD) , and to valid this setting (with “enter/yes” on the OT), because if you forget it, all the setting won’t work.

Yes by the start setting, it works good for me - but still it has bit of delay and doubles every each time of first step.
Like
Correct:
1 2 3 4
Dom chi Dom chi Dom chi Dom chichi

Actually:
1 2 3 4 5(Here!)
Dom chi Dom chi Dom chi dom chichi DDom chi Dom chi…

P.S
I’m using 64/16 setting for pattern change, so should be ok.

drone · 2013-10-12T13:52:28.000Z

Yes I know this problem of the first step. I think it’s due to the midi note that is being sent by the OT. That’s why it should be a better solution to use a Program Change, but unfortunately, that doesn’t works. I really think that Elektron should work on this issue. I also have the Yamaha RS 7000, and I got the same problem with the MD. It’s even worst with the RS7k, because it’s midi clock is very bad, so I need an external midi clock (a laptop).

drone · 2013-10-13T17:24:54.000Z

I found a solution, witch is not perfect but better than listening a click each first time of first step: instead of setting the midi time of the midi note to INF, set it just a little bit shorter (the indication that appears when tweaking the knob counter-clockwise from INF). Then you’ll still ear the click on the very first step, but no more after.

getsal · 2013-10-15T19:23:09.000Z

oh I try it now. THX!!!

getsal · 2013-10-18T22:42:13.000Z

""drone"":

I found a solution, witch is not perfect but better than listening a click each first time of first step: instead of setting the midi time of the midi note to INF, set it just a little bit shorter (the indication that appears when tweaking the knob counter-clockwise from INF). Then you’ll still ear the click on the very first step, but no more after.

I found why first step doubled…it causes by Swing.
Set on relevant track’s swing amount minimum, then use GATE on MD, and set note and length amout 95 not INF. 95 is just one step shorter than 1/1.
It works too even if swing is on, but much much better result without.

drone · 2013-10-19T09:42:47.000Z

You mean change swing amount on the MD? I never use Swing, and the minimum seems to be 50% on the MD.

Ozone · 2013-10-19T13:31:30.000Z

I remember on old e-u forum was a discussion re: Common frustrations regarding delay of one pattern with PG ch w from OT to md and mm.

As u guys worked out for performance, best to use notes on OT channel going to note assigned md pattern, setting length to inf, but can also confirm slight audible delays during first pattern page of md.

My workaround was always using an OT audio channel for the kick (main element that needs to be exactly in time). This method is workable although not perfect.

A fun technique with this method is building say 5 short fill patterns on md, assigned to adjacent pg ch notes, then on OT last bar p-lock a note to middle or first ‘md fill pattern’, then also p-lock same note with ramp or random lfo assigned to pitch at 2 and it will cycle through fills.

getsal · 2013-10-21T08:10:28.000Z

""drone"":

You mean change swing amount on the MD? I never use Swing, and the minimum seems to be 50% on the MD.

DOn’t know you case - but also I never used swing but somehow it was bit more than 50.
So after I change this, works fine for me. Check it.

drone · 2013-10-30T12:18:06.000Z

I’ve just checked that if you set the MD to it’s own tempo (internal), then the problem of the first beat seems to be solved. All the rest of the tricks can be applied as we talked about in this thread.

getsal · 2013-11-12T22:22:27.000Z

no… I set it EXternal, as OT is master.

However I’m quite fine with the setting of note length 94 for beat midi, but today I found that it’s not possible to make more than 16 steps, coz note length cannot make longer than 1 and half. (Except INF).

But for me no problem…I use only 16 steps.