Pattern/Kit relationship

x0x · 2013-12-21T13:40:30.000Z

When I first got my A4 I loaded a template up that someone had created where they had preassigned empty kits to all the patterns. Does anyone know where I can find it?

Unfortunately I seem to got used to using the A4 in this way, because since the new OS and doing a factory reset I can’t seem to get to grips with the relationship between kits and patterns. I open a new empty pattern, clear all the track sounds, save the new empty kit, save the pattern, but when I switch patterns and then switch back my new pattern seems to have forgotten the new empty kit and has the kit assigned from the previously used pattern. Must be doing something wrong??

avantronica · 2013-12-21T13:44:38.000Z

i think void posted something called tabula rasa which is a sysex file set up just the way you require, i think it’s somewhere on e-u though !

x0x · 2013-12-21T14:09:00.000Z

Ah thanks, I’ll have a search for it!

EDIT: Found it, it’s here in case anyone is interested…

http://www.elektron-users.com/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=28&func=view&id=218067&catid=9&limit=10&limitstart=0

I think I’ve realised my issue. Like void says in that thread you have to have at least one trig in the pattern otherwise its forgets the kit

void · 2013-12-21T14:13:09.000Z

here you go: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50830178/tabula_rasa.syx
contains 128 kits and 128 patterns with, I think, a trigless lock on track 1/step 1 to preserve the kit link.

untested with 1.1 but should work fine. it’s possible that the kits have an older version of the defualt sound patch, not sure. may check later and update if necessary.

x0x · 2013-12-21T14:18:57.000Z

[quote=“” void""]
here you go: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50830178/tabula_rasa.syx
contains 128 kits and 128 patterns with, I think, a trigless lock on track 1/step 1 to preserve the kit link.

untested with 1.1 but should work fine. it’s possible that the kits have an older version of the defualt sound patch, not sure. may check later and update if necessary.
[/quote]

Nice one!
Yes an updated if needed would be great. I’ve obviously come to rely on this setup

Low_Life · 2014-05-29T20:47:09.000Z

After months of using the A4 I finally started using void’s tabula rasa. It’s so good being able to switch patterns and not having to worry about anything changing elsewhere! I definitely recommend this solution to anyone who finds themselves going back to patterns a week later only to find an entirely different set of sounds.

R7 · 2014-05-30T00:13:49.000Z

I think I’m going to use this. The pattern/kit relationship on the A4 is the most frustrating thing about it to me. Besides no midi out to DAW.

It wouldn’t be such a problem if the A4 didn’t auto save your pattern everytime you try to change kit. So you have to save kit, save pattern, switch pattern, switch kit, create a trig on pattern and save pattern.

Seems like alot of work just to change patterns and keep whatever it is you were working on.

Since this was created before 1.1 the only difference in default sound could be the F1 resonance boost being off. Have to test it to be sure.

Secretcircuitman · 2014-06-02T03:44:57.000Z

Hmmm this is really crazy. Why would they design the machine like that?
You bring it to a gig and the thing has certain sounds completely switched out!
VERY nerve wracking. Unbelievable actually… Am I missing something here?
The octatrack always seems to have everything right in place every time you switch it on (apart from if you carelessly replace a sample in the slot list) …
Why can’t the A4 be like that??

djadonis206 · 2014-06-02T04:33:40.000Z

I think this is how the MD works and I prefer it. It means you can get some dramatic or subtle changes from pattern to pattern. If you need several patterns to share a kit, make it happen. Simple.

SB-SIX · 2014-06-02T06:26:38.000Z

Yeah this gets me everytime too, even after years of elektron experience. Its a strange descision. In 99 out of 100 cases, you would want a pattern to have its own kit. If you want to share kits and have to perform a few button presses that would be ok.
Now the default is working with shared kits, and the exception is a kit per pattern. Should be the other way around. They will probably never change that because they would have to change it on all machines except the OT.

tobdoly · 2015-12-19T21:23:18.000Z

BESTs features, in my opinion, would be :
-at each new pattern it copies the 1st kit on kit slot 2 and the pattern is linked to the 2nd slot
-If you want to reset sounds, just reset the kit, It’s a pretty fast operation.
(it can be a little hard to understand at the beginning ^^)

OR like the preset shared before.

But WHY do they leave this without one of these 2 solutions witch is a terrible waste of time to do the linking or a copy AND the save of the kit everytime we’re starting a new pattern?

vos · 2015-12-22T09:17:50.000Z

At the beginning this system frustrated me to - but after a while I realised it’s great the way it is. I just had to forget what I know about other synth’s and systems. And when you look carefully - you’ll realise without auto-saving this machine would be much more time consuming and complicated if not impossible. Linking a different Kit to a pattern is only a few button - pushes away. Think it true …

Bwax · 2015-12-22T15:39:38.000Z

I’m sorry to say that I’m one who never got along with this file management system. I felt like I was always fighting something or forgetting to do something.

A constant feeling like - leaving for the airport and wondering if I had locked the door behind me. That’s the best way I know how to describe it.

I think OverBridge Total Recall will help a lot of people. But that’s only at home tied to the computer. Play live? Better test test test before you show up.

vos · 2015-12-22T16:55:17.000Z

What’s so complicated in linking a kit to a pattern and and to copy a pattern if it’s OK so you cant’ destroy it ?
Don’t expect these boxes to be a daw. No hardware synth or Workstation etc… is a daw. In other systems it’s much more complicated as every midi-channel can only have 1 sound linked - performances can nest different sounds etc… - and when you change those sounds they change for everything - elektron gives you a way to garanty that changing a sound douns’t change the sound elsewhere - if you make a little effort AND learn the system. Comparing hardware to a daw isn’t fair - and if you do - then Elektrons comes out much better than any system I know. Itr’s no Daw - name me 1 hardware system that dous it easyer - faster and better … if… you can …

Bwax · 2015-12-22T17:24:45.000Z

""vos"":

At the beginning this system frustrated me to -

And now… you’re what? Frustrated at others for being frustrated?

vos · 2015-12-23T07:26:32.000Z

""Bwax"":

[quote=“vos”]At the beginning this system frustrated me to -

And now… you’re what? Frustrated at others for being frustrated?
[/quote]
Ofcourse
That’s why I try to explain that ones you know the system it’s really simple and handy,… i got there by focussing myself on these instruments, and not using any other for a whyle. and by analysing the manual. There’s no other way I think, and I know ones one has a way of working with other systems it can be difficult incorporate a new workflow - that dépends on you…I’ve been working with many different hardware systems and each time I had to pass a frustrating period to really become at ease - if I compare the Elektron system with others - I think it’s one of the most simple and at the same time flexible. Because there’s little visual feedback, one has to come to the point where one sees the system in ones mind; Same go’s for Synthesis - just turning buttons can be fun - but ones you want to be able to descide yourself where the sound go’s you need an inner vieuw - emagination - of what’s happening - ones arrived at that level - it’s not complex anymore - if you can’t emagine what’s happening - things are very complicated. Whitout Learning the Elektron - workflow totally - wich will be frustrating at the beginning - you’ll stay frustrated - and maybe blaim the machine.

vos · 2015-12-23T12:43:00.000Z

About the relation Patter/Kit
maybe the best way to grab it is to see the KIT’s and Patterns as total different entety’s. - who have no relation at all until YOU relate them.

1 + DRIVE = where all sounds can be saved as separate entety’s
2 KIT = 4 sounds linked together if linked to a pattern > 1 for each track
3 Pattern = 4 tracks + all kinds of lock’s

1 sounds will only be in there if you put them there. there is no link with 2 and 3
2 to create a Kit you have to be in a pattern - this Kit will stay linked to this pattern until you descide to link another Kit to it. Kit’s can be saved without being linked to any pattern.
3 any Kit can be linked to it

so these are 3 seperate things - changing someting at their level wil change nothing in the other ones. = copying a sound from the + drive into a Kit makes this sound a seperate entety - if you change te sound in the Kit - there will be no reflection in the + Drive and vice -versa. Wich is fantastic !
Changing stuff at pattern-level = all kinds of triggs - and lock’s Will change nothing at Kit level - it wiil offcoarse have conséquences in what you hear as locks can change a sound totally …
Changing stuff at Kit-level = the sounds itself will change nothing for 1 or 3 >>>> be CAREFULL >>> every pattern linked to thesame Kit will change at sound - level !!! to avoid this make a copy of the Kit and link it.
Linking a Kit to more than 1 pattern can save you time and has the fantastic advantage - when you tweek sounds Live - there will be no parameter-jumps as the Kit dousn’t have to reload in a chain or a song when switching to another pattern loaded with thesame Kit.

It sounds complicated when yiou read but it’s simple ones you grasp it.
Good luck - feel free to ask …

smokyfrog · 2015-12-23T13:17:02.000Z

One thing I’d add is: save your kits regularly. Save each one as you finish working on it and begin another. Although patterns are saved automatically when you select a new one, kits are not and only the edits made to the currently active kit will survive a power cycle.
This may be obvious but it has caught me out sometimes during long sessions where I tweak lots of kits only to be puzzled when loads of patterns sound different/wrong the following day.

pierpoljam · 2021-10-14T23:31:46.046Z

Hi Void, could you reup the sorting machine and the tabula rasa kit ? Many thanks for sharing.

sezare56 · 2021-10-15T02:44:36.981Z

pierpoljam:

Hi Void

It’s better to quote or write @void for notifications.

Unfortunately, no news from him here since a while. Last Post : 15 March 2018