Pattern juggling / rearrange recording

This is a follow up to this thread Program change messages not handled as expected

Long story short: I wanted to use program changes in combination with the ‘Direct Jump’ pattern mode to create e.g. breakbeats via the AR, record that into a sequencer, edit the data, then replay it.

The problem is that the (fast) ‘pattern juggling’ you can do on the AR itself can neither be recorded via MIDI, nor does the AR accept such fast pattern changes.

Elektron is aware of this issue but says it’s not easy to fix.

Then I realized that there might be a better way to implement this kind of workflow:

I want to propose a new ‘rearrange recording’ mode that records the currently played steps, including existing trigs and controller changes (new trigs) into a temporary pattern buffer (the pattern ‘clipboard’).

The recorded steps are always copied from the pattern that is currently being replayed.

The new recording mode is entered by pressing [Retrig] + [Record] + [Play] (this combo seems unused right now).

Recording is stopped (without stopping the entire replay) by pressing [Record] or [Play] (i.e. just like ‘live recording’).

The clipboard with the recorded data can be pasted to any pattern, just like you’d paste a copied pattern.

Alternatively, instead of adding a new recording mode, the existing ‘live recording’ mode could be used instead.

The only drawback would be that any existing clipboard data would be overwritten once live recording starts (not a big deal I guess).

With this recording mode, you could capture any breakbeats / glitches / fills / variations you create by jumping between patterns, and even edit the resulting new pattern afterwards.

Naturally, patterns created this way can also be used in another ‘rearrange recording’ run (recursion! head explodes!)

Since this would work without any external sequencers or additional MIDI messages, it would also much better fit into the AR workflow.

What do you think ? Wouldn’t that be totally ace ?!


its an interesting idea, mate.
its a workaround and takes a bit too conceptual space imho.
the problem is that I dont want to duplicate the data. I want to program meta sequence events, as the pattern chain does.

I have dreamed about something similar (automate Scale params and fire them in Scene or even Performance Mode): Track length param locks ("inner-loop")
does not fit for your request since Scene/Performance are on pattern level.
I still like my idea a lot since that would make it a breeze to edit a specific range in a longer pattern.

for now, and much longer, I reckon, we will have to program new patterns manually for this kinds of pattern variation.

above all I dont think you and my idea are targets for most users, too special.
specialist sequencers like cirklon can do that stuff.

I concur elektron should make it possible to send PCs in direct jump mode. I also believe it might be very hard to implement. I suspect its related to timing problems for the AR. not a shame. none of my hardware sequencer do not emit timing problems under certain conditions (yes, even Roger Linn).

I would not call this a workaround but rather a different approach.

Even if the program changes would work with rather fast changes (…and hopefully this will be implemented sooner or later…), the big drawback would be that you’d have to use an external sequencer, which would interrupt the work flow.

And yes, the PrgChg approach will always be prone to timing issues. PCs would always need to be sent in advance (probably at least one step) so this could look a bit awkward in a sequencer.

As far as metasequences are concerned: I can see your point but I could imagine that the UI for this could be a bit too complicated resp. difficult to use.

I agree that it would make sense to edit such a metasequence similar to pattern chains but I can’t see how all the required info
(at least start time and pattern offset per seq. entry) could fit on the display.

Metasequences can also not be used recursively (at least that would complicate things quite a lot!) and, assuming that such meta sequences are edited outside the song view, you’d have to be very careful not to accidentally modify a pattern that’s used in such a metasequence.

Last but not least, a ‘rearrange-record’ feature would be easier to implement :wink:

But don’t get me wrong – having both features (metaseq + rearrange-record) would be ideal.

Although this all may sound like a specialist feature: As far as I am concerned, I don’t see this is as some kind of exotic special effect but rather as a fundamental workflow feature.

Besides, the Analog Rytm is not exactly a mass market product to begin with so it’s allowed to have unusual and cool features :slight_smile:

When I look at e.g. the Octatrack changelog, Elektron does not seem to be the kind of company that leaves you out in the cold soon after product launch, so let’s keep our fingers crossed !

Speaking of updates… have to install 1.02B now (long samplenames, yay!)