Maybe I didn’t because I don’t often used polymetrics, but I want to use it more.
Well there’s always the manual pattern change since I use just 2 box , and I didn’t planned to use polymetrics for now it’s just 1 pattern that have that melody in 6 bars , the other patterns are 8 bars
(Edited for clarity)
Hello machine heads,
After all these years of owning elektron gear, I finally may have solved my issue of pattern change delays. I sent the following to Elektron and hope they take up the challenge. Please bump, heart, or drink yourself silly…
My hope for those who agree, is to create a unified global resource for Elektronauts new and old to reference while they contemplated their setups. I work long hours so I may not have the ability to respond quickly, but I will if anyone has questions. I did the best I could with the time constraints I have. Some ideas may not come across fully and to which I can expand on if requested.
I’d like to keep this thread specific to the Elektron Ecosystem. I refer to the Digitakt and Digitone below but had the Octatrack for many years. There may be variances between model versions and devices but I suspect the high level application of the comments below are generally universal to their product line.
– Commentary Continued below example –
– Example: Program Pattern Delay Issue –
Below is an example of my blind attempt to determine if Pattern Delays syncing multiple Elektron devices were a real thing. I don’t know of it is because I believe I solved my issue, but it requires testing. Testing and experimenting is great but it would ha e been so much easier of Elektron had a detailed process and sample setups explaining a bit of the theory behind music and the conceptual idea used when developing their product line.
I need to test various patten global and track setting out further.
Below were my steps to fist simplify the setup then integrate it with my studio to rule out external interference.
For simplicity, I first managed the pattern follow perfectly first by just connecting the Digitakt to the Digitone a short (newer) midi cable connecting Digitakt out to Digitone In. I then integrated it with my studio setup changing some settings as needed but achieved the same positive results.
I turned off unessential settings to ensure there were no conflicts or issues. Example: usb delays, midi routing, cable issues etc. Any setting with an * is essential. The other settings have no effect on results if toggled on or off for each setup intent. Meaning, the simple setup will have different mandatory settings vs Studio Setup.
I created new blank default projects with all Banks and Patterns identical to each other. I know there will be delays in pattern changes depending on how I setup the global patterns settings (Per Track or Pattern). If per Track is used it is essential to ensure both machines have the same Global and Pattern settings. U less you want to get your calculator out for a more complicated studio setup.
However, identical pattern settings are not mandatory so long as you do the math and take pattern lengths into your song composition as a consideration for sequencing patterns. The odd pattern length must realign at some point and If your math is off the song is toast. Keep it simple and use odd pattern lengths sparingly until you can anticipate while programming new songs exactly how the two device patterns will align, when to initiate a program change, and how odd lengths interact with a full song sequence using your studio gear.
I have read about a bug using different pattern settings and lengths…I am not sure if this is legit or not as I have next to test this out. I watched a stream on youtube using the Digitakt and Digitone patterns issue for his live sets. He mentioned this bug was due to setting the global pattern settings to pattern and where the counter is set to off and the length is set to infinity. The bank patterns were all 8 bars. However, when he went to demonstrate the issue, the pattern changes worked as expected.
For those who do not want to do the math, always make sure the pattern lengths are exactly the same on both devices. For the setups below, the Pattern Length settings are set to Pattern not Per Track (Length 16/16 Scale 1).
Simple Setup
Digitakt Midi Config Settings
Sync: Clock Receive Off, Clock Send on, Transport Receive Off, Transport Send On*, Prog CH Receive Off, Prog Ch Send On*
Port Config: Out Port Func Midi*, Thru Port Func Midi, Input From Disabled, Output to Midi*, Output Ch Auto CH*, Parameter Output CC, Encoder Dst Int, Trig Key Dst Int, Mute Dest Int, Receive Notes Off, Receive Cc/NRPN Off,
Channels: All Tracks Channel Off, FX Control Off, Auto Channel 16*, Program Chg In Ch Auto, Prog Chg Out Auto*.
Digitone Midi Config Settings
Sync: Clock Receive On*, Clock Send Off, Transport Receive On*, Transport Send Off, Prog CH Receive On*, Prog Ch Send off
Port Config: Out Port Func Midi, Thru Port Func Midi, Input From Midi*, Output to Disabled, Output Ch Auto CH*, Parameter Output CC, Encoder Dst Int, Trig Key Dst Int, Mute Dest Int, Receive Notes Off, Receive Cc/NRPN Off,
Channels: All Track & Midi Channel Off, FX Control Off, Auto Channel 16*, Program Chg In CH Auto*, Prog Chg Out Auto.
“Hardware Only” Studio Setup
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Maschine+
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Digitakt
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Digitone
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Tempest
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Virus
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BomeBox (Midi Router / Translator)
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Faderport16
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RME UFX (Mackie Control via Dins)
For the purpose of this post, I am only focusing on MIDI aspects.
BomeBox connects all gear together by USB Hub and Din.
Faderport16 controls UFX Mixer scenes for sampling purposes via Midi using Mackie Protocol
Maschine builds the song structure. Digitakt, Digitone sequence their own patterns. The sequencers are far superior and add the Elektron flavour!
Tempest will sometimes use a pattern or not depending on how I want to use it (Synth, Sample Source, or Kit).
Specific to the Digitakt and Digitone, the Digitakt is receiving USB clock and transport from Maschine (USB In) and Send program changes through the auto channel (Midi Out) and clock out to Digitone (Midi Din). All works with the changes to port and sync settings on both Digitakt and Digitone. The reason for the Digitone to be set up this way is clock stability for patterns to play tighter together and change on point. However, I am sure I need to refine my BomeBox routing/translating to filter out unnecessary messages.
I notice that Digitakt always outputs note when utilizing Midi Out on the event when the settings are set to off.
– end of example–
–Commentary continued–
My ask to Elektron is to fully provide settings and examples for the various setups people use, considerations for pattern math calculations, pseudo polyrhythms, examples of using the auto channel, and a very detailed explanation of the midi settings. I know this is a big ask, but consider the cost savings of support and those who buy the devices and sell them prematurely because of the perceived lack of understanding.
The resources online are varied in opinion and some are outdated due to previous firmwares or based on illegitimate fact. Elektron has the info and fantastic artists who promote the topic (Example @Davemech, @EZBot etc). I ask that Elektron programmers who designed the operational framework for the devices, create an online resource with clear examples and information as to what each function does along with some musical and technical theory. RME manuals do this “in spades”. For example, provide background info on external USB hub considerations, Computer USB device management (Windows), limitations and best practices, gain staging audio interfaces, Gain staging tracks in prep for mixes, Balanced / Unbalanced / USB audio context applicability and set up, etc. I further suggest a section dedicated to known issues which will be fixed in a future firmware specific to interconnectivity of utilizing the Elektron ecosystem (not device specific). Or, if no fix is going to occur or apply to a legacy product (ex: Digitakt 1), call it out but promote the newer product model if the issue was resolved in the new model.
Doing so will catapult the Elektron Brand akin to RME’s band reputation. Check out the RME manuals for the UFX/UCX and you’ll get the idea. You can even check out Access Virus’s manuals as well. Super old hardware but totally applicable today. They also have major sections specific to sound design and theory. Just amazing!
Create a living Elektron manual, updating as needed. Consider that once completed, the majority of the above doesn’t require continual updates and are static. The designers did a bang up job setting up the product line from form fator, build parts, to hardware framework. So they obviously had already considered all of these factors and ran multiple tests in an objective manner. Couple this with the insane Elektron influencers who learned much by trial and error, put interesting uses to the product line unplanned by the developers, and Elektron enters the realm of all that is holy!
My day job keeps me busy about 12-14 hours days generally 7 days a week. Please excuse grammatical, typographical, and any negative tone inferences. I wrote this all out to help, not offend or demand.
Cheers!
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Is this the discussion that you’re looking for?
I think it was discussed somewhere within that this is expected behavior, but I’d have to read through the topic again to confirm.
Good thoughts and best luck!
I guess now reading more closely maybe you have a different focus? Sorry if I misunderstood!
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The issue is when you have the CHANGE set to something (I usually do 16) and the RESET is at INF. Even if you have it that way on both machines, when triggering a pattern change from one device, the following device doesn’t change till one more bar goes by.
Thanks for posting.
I just tested a pattern change from A1 through to A3 with both machines.
I edited two Digitakt patterns *A3 and A5" from the default pattern settings I created as a test. All other patterns on both devices have the same defaults.
- DT & DN Default Pattern Scales: Per Pattern, 16/16 length, Scale 1
- Digitakt A3 Edited Pattern Scale: Per Track, 16/16, CH length, INF M. Len.
- Digitakt A5 Edited Pattern Scale: Per Track, 32/32, CH length, INF M. Len.
I ran through a pattern change from A1 to A5 and the Digitone followed suite without issue.
Change the scales and it won’t work, I believe. I may have forgotten about that. It’s been a while since I’ve worked with it cause I got tired of being pissed off. Haha. I’ll have to test it again this weekend.
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This appears to be the definitive statement of the Elektron → Elektron problem, and it’s from Elektron Support
I thought I knew where the definitive statement of the problem was, but it appears I don’t. The findings of these two posts also clarifies when this happens.
BTW I’m not considering either of the problems with Elektron → Others and Others → Elektron here. Clarifying because people are discussing many different problems in this thread.
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I posted the statement at some point, quoting an email support reply about it. I don’t know where it is now, though.
I think @tnussb can take the credit for identifying the crucial part to reproduce the error (varying track lengths) here. Up to that point, multiple Elektronauts (and Elektron support) were calling it (essentially) user error.
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I have my ST and DN2 both set to PER TRACK Length 16/16, Scale/Speed 1x, Pattern Change 16, Reset INF. When I initiate a PC on the DN2, the ST takes a full bar to cycle. If I set the page setup to PER PATTERN on both of them, it follows fine. And if I change the DN to gave 32/32, as long as it’s PER PATTERN, the ST follows fine, as well.
So frustrating this, considering how powerful these machines are for polymeters, this is unacceptable. My music is seriously being held back and I’ve tried allsorts. I just upgraded my DT and DN to the newer versions, excited that euclidian mode could be a work around but reset messes with that too.
The best I can do using my OT, DT and DN, and I have tried each unit as a master, with no issues. Funnily, OT in every case can have master reset as INF and still change on time.
So I have found that on DT and DN, with pattern change set to 16, I can get up to 64 steps on reset and everything changes in sync and on time, but any variance and we have problems. “perhaps I could have change set to 32 and reset 128”, nope, I have spent days over the course of years and keep coming back to this frustrating issue, my music would be on a whole better level if this just worked.
Surely, they can program the device so the program change is cued early enough, like my situation of changing in 16 steps and reset of 64, why would that be the magic number?
I’ve even tried parameter locking a MIDI channel of DT to send out PC when unmuting the track but that doesn’t seem to work either.
I know many of you have contacted support and I think everyone should possibly shout loud about this. Compromise is not a solution, I was even thinking of using an external sequencer to make everything talk but that messes up the whole flightcase for a bug that has been present for years. Come on Elektron, work this out PLEASE