PA Suggestions

The Lounge
#1

One of my musical goals for 2020 is to start making headway into more live performance/gigging opportunities. So far I’ve got two events lined up for March with the possibility of a couple others on the radar for the spring.

I live in a fairly rural area of the US where clubs catering to electronic music are nonexistent. Bluegrass/jamgrass is king, and generic party-rock bands and acoustic-based collectives covering '90s grunge hits are all too common 'round these parts. Fortunately, we have plenty of breweries, wineries, and bars nearby that are open to the idea of hosting electronic-based acts. Most of these places rely on the promoter or acts to provide their own PA, however.

Any recommendations for reliable PAs that are more suited to smaller venues and more intimate outdoor spaces? My set is mostly deep house/techno that incorporates live electric bass playing, so having something that emphasizes the bottom end is important, but I don’t want to unintentionally rattle the walls. Cost is obviously a priority as well; I can’t afford to drop several thousand dollars on a high-tech component system for an activity that only occupies roughly a dozen evenings a year. I imagine that there are a few 'Nauts out there who don’t live in a major metropolitan area and I’m curious to hear their thoughts/experiences on this as well.

Thanks in advance!

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#2

I run a stage equipment rental business and can give you some pointers. Main question’s are: what 's your budget and how large is the audience you need to play to?

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#3

Audience size would be anywhere from 50-150 people, I’d estimate. Really hoping to keep the cost below $800 or so.

Appreciate the help!

#4

For your type of music you definitely need a subwoofer. For small gigs you can get away with 1 sub and 2 tops, if the sub has enough power. For a budget of 800 I can’t advise on a specific set. It’s in the very low budget range and I don’t know these hands-on. I’m in Europe too so there might be different brands available where you are.

For a small, decent quality set I would look to QSC, Electro-Voice or RCF powered speakers. Preferably 18" sub, 15" if budget is too tight. Around 1000W RMS. Preferably 12" woofers in the tops.

Make sure that sub and tops match so that you can link them through without external cross-over, meaning that either the sub or tops have built-in cross-overs. Usually it’s the sub.

About the budget: will the venues be paying you for the gigs and equipment? If so you can count on the revenue to perhaps invest a little more. If you’re the only one around with decent equipment you could make a rental business out of it and quickly earn your investment back.

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#5

Or check with a local rental provider if they have any used items for sale. Many times you will only save 30-35% of the new price, but you can get some very valuable extras in a package deal (cables, dust covers, speaker stands)

+1 for QSC, RCF and EV.

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#6

If you want to play outdoor plus this this type of music I would highly recommend 2 subwoofers like 2x EV ELX 118P and maybe 2x EV ZLX 12P active full-range speaker. This is the equipment I use for an audience size up to 100 people. Really happy with it. Not so sure if it will work with your budged.

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#7

I bought some passive speakers from Seismic Audio to go with a free Yamaha amp I got. I’ve used it two years running in a tent that holds about 40-50 people. We set up at a week long music and arts festival. I play disco, ghetto tech/tech house, and progressive/tribal over three nights. Everyone always has a blast. Defo wanting to get a sub though.

The speakers were very reasonable for the money and they have survived two week long festivals outdoors with storms each year lol. If you crowd isn’t used to good club systems I think its possible to get a fun rig for a small crowd within your budget. I don’t have a ton of advice as I kind of stumbled into everything myself with owning a PA and throwing parties with it.

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#8

I think you are sort of in the price bracket of check the nearest metropolitan areas craigslist and get what ever you can at a good deal. Research whatever used stuff you find until you find something that could work. Are you thinking of it being kind of house dance night? Or is it more background music for people to relax, drink, chat? If you really want it to be dance focused you probably want to follow other peoples advice here with 2 subs and what not. If not you probably could more easily get away with a scrappy set up I would think.

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#9

FWIW, I’m considering giving this sub a shot: https://www.seismicaudiospeakers.com/collections/subwoofers/products/18-inch-powered-subwoofer-cab

It can power a set of speakers with its own amp. I’ve got an amp, but have been wanting a back up…my Yamaha is from the 70s I think lol. Like I said I’ve had a set of this brands PA speakers for about three years and they sound good and have worked for the party situation I described above. They survived outside (under a tent) in hot/cold/stormy week long festival twice. Also, very nice for hauling over to a friends house for a bbq and DJ session.

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#10

I do have some hefty PA equipment for larger rooms (although most venues have their own and I rarely use it).

That said, if I need to do smaller performances where I provide PA, I also have a pair of Kustom PA50s and a Behringer B1200D sub that, together, have NO problem thumping a smaller venue or private party.

Taken together, total cost is about $550 or less. I also recommend a small mixer with a graphic EQ for taming or boosting troublesome frequencies as needed.

Yeah, Kustom and Behringer brands take a lot of crap and aren’t sexy like a QSC rig (I know a guy that has a massive QSC rig in his living room for private raves - insane ear-punishing overkill), but the cheap rig will get the job done until you feel like upgrading, and even then, it can still be handy for small gigs where minimal back strain is in order.

Even cheap gear can sound solid with a proper sub handling the bottom end and the crossover frequencies and volume balance set right. So many times I see people trying to get beef out of inexpensive equipment without a sub, and it’s just awful. Friends don’t let friends do live electronica without a sub. :wink:

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#11

This is incredibly helpful - thanks!

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#12

Solid advice.

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#13

Just a quick update, I’m doing some performances at an upcoming festival, what they call a “regional” for the Burning Man crowd. Several thousand people and looks to be 4 days of a lot of fun.

But I’m also providing PA, doing defacto music direction and spinning the main parties for one of the registered sound camps. The above described lightweight system in my previous post probably wouldn’t get the job done when we’re hosting a couple of the scheduled parties, yet for space, weight and other constraints, I really can’t take the big guns either.

I didn’t want to spend any serious money, so I ordered a couple of used Alto TS310 powered speakers as a compromise. They’re in “excellent” condition with a 30day return policy, so if they are defective or otherwise insufficient, I can return them.

The pair, used, were a little over $250 US, which is the price of a single new one, so if they ARE in “excellent” condition, it will be quite the bargain.

2000W/129dB peak, 1000W/126dB continuous for each speaker, reviews are good, sound comparisons with more expensive options are good, and if they do what I hope, then I can ditch the Kustoms and use these for small AND medium applications, along with a sub of course.

It will be a few days until they arrive, but I’ll give an update once I test them, and another update after the festival or other live use.

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#14

I hope those don t have to serve those thousands of people at once?

About budget brands, some will sound ok but for most or all build quality and durability is just less. You get what you (don t) pay for. I run a rental company where durability is a serious issue. For other uses it can be different.

#15

Appreciate all of the insight here. So this is what I ended up getting:

Yeah, I realize “PRORECK” is shorthand for “cheap Chinese manufacturing” but I’ve actually played a set through this same system before and it sounded surprisingly solid. A friend who DJs part-time actually bought this as well for his backup PA/smaller room option. My plan is to test the waters of live playing with this for a while, then eventually sell and upgrade to something nicer if/when the time comes…

#16

No, I don’t need to fill the entire event, but I do need to have enough throw to fill our camp and account for anticipated bodies filling that and a limited area around for a few of our camp’s scheduled dance parties. The Altos plus a sub or two should cut it for that, and then I’ll be using large event-provided PA for my big-stage sets.

#17

For anyone who has a bit more to spend and if it’s available where you are I advise PL-Audio, a small German manufacturer. Pro quality for considerably less money than the usual pro brands (D&B etc). I use a bunch of their products in my company.

#18

An (as promised) follow-up. Feel free to ignore this long stream of words if you already bought PA or you’re not interested in the Altos as a budget option… :wink:

Bad news: The Alto’s were nearly at my doorstep when the shipper (not the vendor) decided they couldn’t resolve the zip code for some reason, and shipped them back to the vendor.

Good news: In response to the screw up, the vendor put the money back in my account and offered me a deal from one of their local stores on a used pair of the next size up, the TS312.

I really liked the idea of the smaller TS310 model, but a deal is a deal, and I went last night to pick up the TS312 speakers from my local store, paying only a tiny bit over what I would have paid for the TS310 model because there were no shipping and handling fees involved. Worked out to less than $200 each, not counting tax. The TS310 model was going to cost me close to that anyway counting all that shipping and handling.

Got them home and they’re in great shape physically. Then this morning I had a chance to quickly test them out. Nothing complex, just running my iPad direct into the speaker inputs.

Holy smokes, these things are loud, clean, and with very good bass response, even with no mixer or EQ, just BOOM.

By very good bass, I don’t mean that it will replace a dedicated sub. However, from what I’m hearing, I would not be completely ashamed to do an electronic dance party with these alone.

Caveats: I will want to use my mixer with graphic EQ to get these to sound great, because it doesn’t yet sound “ideal” to my ears, a little too much in the lower mids for my taste, and overall just needs some tweaking. Pushing in the contour button help a little, but still, don’t expect that QSC plug-and-play amazement. But of course I didn’t expect that from a budget speaker.

Also, using them with subs and the right crossover frequency should help even things out as well, taking some pressure off of the 12s in the Altos from trying to be subs too.

Basically, various music sounded in a range from “okay” to “great” with, oddly enough, only the Penatonix EDM track “Love Again” sounding “perfect” to my ears. But some EQ and subs should cure any deficiencies I’m hearing in my raw tests.

Wanted the TS310 speakers, but now I’m kind of happy I ended up with the TS312 model. I wouldn’t want any less bass response than what I get from the 12s, and that extra couple of dB of headroom … you never know when you might want it.

tl;dr - ended up with the Alto TS312 speakers and so far, so good. For those interested, more to come after my next gig.

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#19

I stumbled onto this thread which I enjoyed reading.

Curious, did you end up continuing this route, organising parties and using this / other PA?

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#20

Eh… sort-of. The PA is still very much in use for the band I’m currently playing in - we do an electronic space funk thing and it’s useful for handling samples, synths, FX, etc. Overall a sound purchase and if it stopped working tomorrow I’d still feel like I got my money’s worth out of it ten times over.

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