Overhub Bandwidth Issue? MacBook Problem? Not sure

ianmckenzie · 2015-11-29T10:38:02.000Z

Hopefully I can explain this.

Without overhub I can connect my A4 and Rytm to my MacBook Pro (USB port each - no hub) and get my desired track count. That is A4 = 5 tracks (4 synth and 1 audio(for my modular which is through the A4 input) plus Rytm = 5 tracks (SD, BD, RS/CP, CH/OH, CY/CB). This is great but leaves me without a free USB port.

So I bought overhub.

However, with both machines plugged into overhub and overhub (obviously) plugged into one of the MacBook USB ports I run out of track count (bandwidth) way before that described above. This is without anything other than the A4 and Rytm plugged into overhub. Plugging one machine into overhub and one direct into a MacBook USB port and I am back to my desired track count described above.

I wasn’t expecting overhub to magically enable me to have as many tracks as I want but shouldn’t overhub be able to manage at least the same track count as I get by plugging the machines direct into the MacBook. Am I missing something?

Running OSX Yosemite on MacBook Pro (2012).

avantronica · 2015-11-29T12:40:36.000Z

OB uses a trivial amount of Bandwidth
very small
you can get 8 tracks at 16bit or 6 at 24
it shouldn’t really be possible with any combination to fail to do this
unless you’re hammering your computer USB bus with hard disks and hd video and other high bandwidth devices
OB is trivially small in terms of bandwidth
the overhub should manage that
no idea what your issue is
.
OB uses 12 Mb/s max per bus
USB2 offers 480 per bus
USB3 offers 5000 per bus

Michael_R_Grant · 2015-11-29T13:10:22.000Z

But surely USB bandwidth is limited, which is why you can’t get all of the tracks for a single Analog machine running through Overbridge at 24 bit - you have to choose which not to use. So the OP’s question makes sense, doesn’t it? His computer’s USB port has the same bandwidth as before. but with Overhub it’s now having to cope with twice the data.

154 · 2015-11-29T13:50:28.000Z

Overhub is not compatible with early 3.0 usb ports on Macs. You need to use a micro usb cable to connect it to your mbp, not the supplied micro b cable. Luckily the micro b usb-port is physically backward compatible, just use the small half of the port. After that bandwith should be as promised(and the hub runs as a USB 2.0 hub)

ianmckenzie · 2015-11-29T14:11:22.000Z

""154"":

Overhub is not compatible with early 3.0 usb ports on Macs. You need to use a micro usb cable to connect it to your mbp, not the supplied micro b cable. Luckily the micro b usb-port is physically backward compatible, just use the small half of the port. After that bandwith should be as promised(and the hub runs as a USB 2.0 hub)

Thank you. That’s fixed it. Working as expected now.

avantronica · 2015-11-29T16:16:16.000Z

""Michael_R_Grant"":

But surely USB bandwidth is limited, which is why you can’t get all of the tracks for a single Analog machine running through Overbridge at 24 bit - you have to choose which not to use. So the OP’s question makes sense, doesn’t it? His computer’s USB port has the same bandwidth as before. but with Overhub it’s now having to cope with twice the data.

well, worst case it’s “having to cope with” 24 Mb/s out of a minimum 480 - as I said, the issue was not about OB bandwidth as it has been made clear - there is nothing about the track counts used that should trip up any computer - OB sets a maximum defined by the USB protocol used and there’s nothing about any normal setup which should prevent access to that, which was the point I made
.
I’m not actually sure why tricking the hub to be USB2 works, but as mentioned it seems to be due to an incompatibility with a few macs - so the problem stemmed from the computer os and was nothing to do with OB as I clearly spelled out fwiw

urbangipsy · 2015-11-29T16:30:44.000Z

""154"":

Overhub is not compatible with early 3.0 usb ports on Macs. You need to use a micro usb cable to connect it to your mbp, not the supplied micro b cable. Luckily the micro b usb-port is physically backward compatible, just use the small half of the port. After that bandwith should be as promised(and the hub runs as a USB 2.0 hub)

I am just about to buy Overhub but after reading this I am a bit confused.
So Overhub will work with its full USB 3.0 power also on early USB 3.0 Macs if you have the right cable? Don’t really know how early USB ports my Mac has, could you please advise how to check this? I have a 15" Retina, Mid 2012…
Many many thanks for any kind of input…
The thing is, my current powered USB hub can’t handle all devices anymore. It is disconnecting my iPad more and more in the middle of production. So I figured if I buy Overhub and connect Rytm, iPad, 2x HDD, hardware synth on it it should work without problems. I would buy also the power adapter for Overhub.
In your experience, would Overhub handle all of this and leave bandwith room for lets say Analog Four also?

avantronica · 2015-11-29T18:02:46.000Z

""urbangipsy"":

I am just about to buy Overhub but after reading this I am a bit confused.
So Overhub will work with its full USB 3.0 power also on early USB 3.0 Macs if you have the right cable?

The cable ‘fix’ is to use a usb2 cable instead of a usb3
the cables are backwards compatible
if you have a problem mac - the only solution would be a fix to that or to use the usb2 cable
.
there’s nothing special about overhub, it’s just a well made neat usb3 hub
the one i got has the same usb3 chip and cost £6, no issues
.
if you hit your usb bus hard then overhub will not protect you - you have to manage that, overhub will protect those low bandwidth (and higher) streams from the issues that arise when you use STT hubs, you need a MTT hub
but if you ask too much of your computer hub (or use it unwisely) then you’ll still have issues - an MTT hub will take care of bandwidth management to give you the best outcome

ianmckenzie · 2015-11-29T22:37:05.000Z

""urbangipsy"":

[quote=“154”]Overhub is not compatible with early 3.0 usb ports on Macs. You need to use a micro usb cable to connect it to your mbp, not the supplied micro b cable. Luckily the micro b usb-port is physically backward compatible, just use the small half of the port. After that bandwith should be as promised(and the hub runs as a USB 2.0 hub)

I am just about to buy Overhub but after reading this I am a bit confused.
So Overhub will work with its full USB 3.0 power also on early USB 3.0 Macs if you have the right cable? Don’t really know how early USB ports my Mac has, could you please advise how to check this? I have a 15" Retina, Mid 2012…
Many many thanks for any kind of input…
The thing is, my current powered USB hub can’t handle all devices anymore. It is disconnecting my iPad more and more in the middle of production. So I figured if I buy Overhub and connect Rytm, iPad, 2x HDD, hardware synth on it it should work without problems. I would buy also the power adapter for Overhub.
In your experience, would Overhub handle all of this and leave bandwith room for lets say Analog Four also?
[/quote]
My MacBook Pro is similar to yours. That is - it’s a 15" Retina, Mid 2012.
I am far from being an expert and the others posting here know a great deal more than me. I think the problem is an incompatibility in MacBooks of that era and USB3.

Simple solution - use the USB2 cable that comes supplied. I am getting my desired track count (see above) without issue now. My thanks again to the helpful people on here for that.

urbangipsy · 2015-11-30T14:32:51.000Z

""ianmckenzie"":

My MacBook Pro is similar to yours. That is - it’s a 15" Retina, Mid 2012.
I am far from being an expert and the others posting here know a great deal more than me. I think the problem is an incompatibility in MacBooks of that era and USB3.

Simple solution - use the USB2 cable that comes supplied. I am getting my desired track count (see above) without issue now. My thanks again to the helpful people on here for that.

Thanks, I understand but this solution breaks the purpose of a USB 3.0 hub in the first place. If I use this cable and connect my external SSD HDD to Overhub it will work only with USB 2.0 speed. I can use many other cheaper hubs for that.

Does this mean that our laptops, MacBook Pro Retina 15" Mid 2012 are not compatible with any USB 3.0 hubs out there? If this is the case, I am speechless…Probably I should ask this on Apple forums also.

urbangipsy · 2015-11-30T14:37:41.000Z

""avantronica"":

The cable ‘fix’ is to use a usb2 cable instead of a usb3
the cables are backwards compatible
if you have a problem mac - the only solution would be a fix to that or to use the usb2 cable
.
there’s nothing special about overdub, it’s just a well made neat usb3 hub
the one i got has the same usb3 chip and cost £6, no issues
.
if you hit your usb bus hard then overdub will not protect you - you have to manage that, overdub will protect those low bandwidth (and higher) streams from the issues that arise when you use STT hubs, you need a MTT hub
but if you ask to much of your computer hub (or use it unwisely) then you’ll still have issues - an MTT hub will take care of bandwidth management to give you the best outcome

Many thanks for this @avantronica. I really must take care of the bandwidth of each of the two 3.0 ports.

Would you be so kind and point me to a usb3 MTT hub that works for you?

But first of course I have to find out for sure what is with this usb3 port problem with first retina laptops…